<_sniper_> hehehehe.. <_sniper_> all other members of the UN security council wanted to condemn Israel for attacking the UN post but USA (freedom and democracy) vetoed it....Israel says the resolution was fair. <_sniper_> hell yeah.. <_sniper_> NUKE ISRAEL! <_sniper_> I'm so full of that fucking country.. <Shai-Tan> indeed <_sniper_> Eye for an eye..I'll kill one Israel officer for one of ours, is that fair? <_sniper_> I bet I'll be hanged for that. <_sniper_> They kill one of my brother-in-arms-for-peace..I think I'm entitled to kill one of their nazis. <_sniper_> Hezbollah, where can I enlist? <_sniper_> FYI: I don't care at all what anybody thinks about me. I'm going to be openly anti-Israel from now on. This was the last straw for me. Fuck you jews. <_sniper_> I will also quit this project. As long as it's backed by some Israel company, I don't want to have anything to do with it. <_sniper_> Good bye. <-- _sniper_ (~jani@a88-112-115-63.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has left #php.pecl
Ironic that a former "peacekeeper" says "Nuke"... Very lame, regardless of the reason.
You'd probably say much the same thing if someone dropped a laser-guided bomb on your colleague's head.
And since he hasn't actually killed anyone in his frustration and rage, he's still miles behind the bomb-flingers of the world in the lameness department.
"At 9:05 AM local time (06:05 CET), on 12 July 2006, Hezbollah initiated a Katyusha rocket and mortar attack on Israeli military positions and villages of northern Israel, injuring at least 8 Israelis[18]. Afterwards, a ground contingent of Hezbollah militants attacked two Israeli armored Humvees on a routine patrol along the Israel-Lebanon border near the Israeli village of Zar'it with anti-tank rockets, capturing two Israeli soldiers, and killing eight." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_ conflict [wikipedia.org])
But it supports your position a lot better to pretend that all they did was capture a couple soldiers, and Israel started the whole thing, right?
Come on mods. Copy and pasted IRC logs, posted without a referencing link, +5? Even if this DOES turn out to be from him, does this really need to be posted here on Slashdot?
Yeah, it does. When someone states that they want to join the Nazis to genocide a race, that should be public information. 2AM on IRC or not, it's obvious he meant it.
I think many of you guys need to readjust your sense of proportionality. This guy has most likely done more to both world peace _and_ open source world than 99% of the whiners on this forum.. and now you are mocking him for not revealing some interpersonal issues and saying ill-considered things in chat *once* when obviously being out of his mind.
Consider this. That guy has 1) worked deeply on a project for six years and has just made a decision to quit it, 2) has just lost a coworker in a bit questionable series of events, 3) is obviously depressed or burned out or both, 4) is constantly under threat while serving in hostile country with no infrastructure of whatsoever and having to remain calm and peaceful while in desperate situation and underpowered, 5) has had harder than normal time in service past six months and 6) people are blaming you for not answering their *software project* emails fast enough, when you have been busy with things 4 and 5.
If you can say you have experienced even *half* of these, let alone simultaneously and are willing to come up and admit it, *then* I can take you seriously when you come and say that you didn't say anything unprintable in that situation. Maybe.
And also remember: english is not his native language. It's more than a bit hypocritical to judge someone you have not even met by his writing in *chat* in *foreign language*, especially when the chat log is spread without his consent by someone who is not willing to reveal his name, nor the context of the discussion.
If you can say you have experienced even *half* of these, let alone simultaneously and are willing to come up and admit it, *then* I can take you seriously when you come and say that you didn't say anything unprintable in that situation. Maybe.
Been there, done that [slashdot.org] but I'm not on record as wanting to nuke various African countries.
It's more than a bit hypocritical to judge someone you have not even met by his writing in *chat* in *foreign language*
Bullshit. "Nazis" and "fuck you jews" comes across p
advocates the use of nuclear weapons against Israel
wishes to join hezbolah in fighting Israel
harbors hostility toward Jews in general, in addition to Israel
Could you please tell me what of that got lost in translation? I mean, even when I tone down his rhetoric for him to make it sound more palatable, it still doesn't come across very well.
Can you think of a possible translation or interpretation of his statements that does not indicate that he advocates genocide against both Israelis and Jews?
Even with the posted IRC logs, this may not be the entire story. I haven't scrolled through enough of the 600+ comments yet, and I can't verify the legitimacy of the quotation. But let's assume it's valid. The guy is supposed to be in Afghanistan right now. That means he is taking preventative medication for malaria. At least one of the anti-malarial drugs typically administered by the U.S. military in Afghanistan, mefloquine (a.k.a. Lariam), occasionally causes mental problems [fda.gov]. It's rare - usually, m
If this is real (which I still have a hard time beliving), give the guy a break. It was obviously written in anger. And I am betting that you would be pretty pissed too, if your country men were being killed* because some murderous wanker in the Israeli army decided that bombing a UN post would be a good idea.
Jani just returned from a 6 month peace-keeping tour in Afgahnistan, one of his co-workers was killed in what was called a deliberate attack on a UN position.
Regardless of stupid things that he said, I think it's VERY poor taste to post an emotional outburst (which was timestamped at 2am - yes, it's real) and to make such a big deal over this.
Jani just returned from a 6 month peace-keeping tour in Afgahnistan, one of his co-workers was killed in what was called a deliberate attack on a UN position.
I was part of the peacekeeping mission in Mogadishu, Somalia. Several of my "co-workers" were killed in very deliberate attacks against US and UN forces. However, if I came home and said that I wanted to join Aryan Nations to kill me some black people, I'd be (rightfully) shunned from polite society.
I can empathize with Jani, probably more than can 99.9% of Slashdotters, but that doesn't make his outburst acceptable. Understandable, sure, but acceptable.
That doesn't appear to be a complete transcript. Specifically:
_sniper_ hehehehe.. _sniper_ all other members of the UN security council wanted to condemn Israel for attacking the UN post but USA (freedom and democracy) vetoed it....Israel says the resolution was fair. _sniper_ hell yeah.. _sniper_ NUKE ISRAEL!
What's he saying "hell yeah..." and "hehehehe.." to? It seems completely incongruous with the rest of his statements, unless something was left out.
Obviously the part before 'hehehe' is cut, but 'hell yeah' might be meant as irony. I suppose we'll find out sooner or later, I doubt Jani will be silent on the issue much longer. Absence of a response isn't proof he did say and mean it, but it would certainly be very foolish in any other case.
If we follow Occam's razor then surely he would deny the words if the logs aren't true while if they are he would apologise for a sad, emotional rant. I suspect returning from his decision that he cannot work on PHP as
" FYI: I don't care at all what anybody thinks about me. I'm going to be openly anti-Israel from now on. This was the last straw for me. Fuck you jews."
If it's true, that's a nice little bit of anti-Semitism at the end. He may want to be anti-Israel, but he's just exposed himself as a garden-variety anti-Semite, too.
That said, I hope it's not true, and that this is made up. Any independent corroboration?
If it's true, that's a nice little bit of anti-Semitism at the end. He may want to be anti-Israel, but he's just exposed himself as a garden-variety anti-Semite, too.
Writing as a fellow Finn, I can assure you that most people here don't know the difference between Jews and Israel. I'm sure Jani only has hard opinions against the government and the politics of the Israel state.
Furthermore, I really think that the anti-semitist card has been used for far too long already. Hitler did a horrible crime against Jews but Israel shouldn't use that to gain political advantage any more. Israel is not the weak little victim in this conflict.
Sure, but the problem is, if you can't make the distinction between Jews and Israelis, any serious hatred towards Israelis promptly carries over towards Jews. This is part of the problem with the whole "anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic" paradigm - one seems to lead directly to the other in many cases. I refer you to The Journal of Conflict Resolution [yale.edu] for more information about this phenomenon.
I never, ever intended to say that Finns were all Jew-haters, and I definitely don't believe that. I am saying that an
Without making any comment on the previous post, it might be worth mentioning that Jani himself has served as a UN peace keeper in Southern Lebanon and has been at the receiving end of both Israel and Hezbollah fire. This may entitle him to have strong personal feelings about the recent death of a Finnish peace keeper at the same location, along ones from other countries.
<apples> i don't think you should have posted it at all <apples> and you could atleast have posted the whole thing <pears> bananas jani is a good friend of ours < bananas> I didn't have the whole thing <pears> bananas: posting something out of contest is bad, and its not going to do him any good <apples> the whole stuff on slashdot is actually crap <apples> but that is nothing new * pears is debating with himself whether to post to slasdot <hedge> don't <trees> well I kind of feel sorry for this now, I didn't expect pasting a few lines to a friend to turn into something ike this:S <pears> i have this feeling that it is unfair to jano <pears> jani <trees> however I wonder why he said that? <pears> not to mentioned his life long peac keeping contributions <hedge> it is, but IMO it's too late to change anything <pears> serving among other places kosovo and lebanon <pears> and being there himself (at the post where the 4 un peackeepers were killed by isreal) <pears> and currently serving in afganistan <pears> all that, and thanks to the IQ of our "friends" bananas and trees here <pears> he comes as some nazi anti-semit biggot <apples> trees: don't you say stupid things when you're drunk?
Jani has been pretty silent all year. Google groups only found 22 posts from him this year. The drop from previous years is huge.
Anyway, Jani did take part in discussions about Israel on the sfnet.keskustelu.maanpuolustus some five years ago. His opinions were not pro-Israel. This would add credibility to the irc-log. Maybe he knew the Finn who was recently killed in Lebanon by Israel?
I don't really think this IRC log is true. PHP has been linked to Zend since PHP3. Zend has had some serious links to Isreal since the beginning.
According to http://www.zend.com/company/management [zend.com]
Zeev Suraski is a graduate of the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology as is Andi Gutmans.
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Php [wikipedia.org]
Zeev Suraski and Andi Gutmans, two Israeli developers at the Technion - Israel Institute of Technology, rewrote the parser in 1997 and formed the base of PHP 3, changing t
As per anon-sibling, Zend is based in Israel and IIRC the two founders of Zend are also Israelis. They're probably not best buddies with Jani now, but I'm not sure anybody was ever best buddies with Jani.
Hmm, the poster of this log seems to have a history of posts marked 'Troll', which might be an indication.
Still, someone would have a reason to make a fake irc log in this direction, which can only be done if they'd have a personal grudge against this guy. So if this log is not fake, then it's probably good for everyone that he quit, if it is fake, then it's also clear why there was an atmosphere for him to quit.
The fact that people reason like the one in this log is really shocking, but true. People didn't seem to have learned anything about that we really need to be careful judging people: Not all muslims are terrorists, not all jews are responsible of this action of the Israeli government. Not all people put on the blacklist by air marshalls are a threat for your country. Thinking in black/white contrasts is not only bad for others, it is also very bad for yourself!
what benefits an israeli company benefits israeli economy, which benefits israel's terrorist regime. Jani is completely right to boycott a terrorist regime. it's a very rational decision when no government seems to care about israeli terrorism.
Okay.....and I suppose you believe the internets is a series of tubes.
You need to look up the definition of terrorism. Then I think you should go read a few news articles about Israeli unilateral withdrawl from previously occupied areas. Then go and tell me about Israeli government "terrorism."
Quote from the letter one of the guys who were shot:
"What I can tell you is this: we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing. The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity."
...so those katyushas just magically appeared in the sky?
Sorry, Hezbollah is the de facto government in that part of Lebanon, and Hezbollah most assuredly does take orders (and thousands of missiles, and uniformed military 'observers') from Iran.
Israel occupied that part of Lebanon for over 20 years, and unilaterally withdrew. After the withdrawal, Hezbollah took over again and resumed lobbing missiles over the border. I had high hopes for democracy and a civil society in Lebanon after last year's events,
what "restraint" are you talking about? That they haven't been putting Arabs in gas chambers, yet? At this pace, they soon will! [...] Seriously! This is Poland 1939 all over again!
THIS is +5 Informative?
Hizballah 'poked the bear' with an unprovoked attack on Israel, Israel responded with all-out-war. Many civilians are dying on both sides (far more on the Lebanese side), some hundreds so far. This is terrible for all of the civilians involved. And I grant that neither Israel nor Hizballah are 'in the
Hezbollah has seats in the Lebanon Government; therefore they are part of Lebanon. In addition, Hezbollah does take orders from their primary benefactors... that would be Iran in case you missed the memo.
Israel withdrew from Southern Lebanon in compliance with a UN resolution; the so-called "Land for Peace" act. It was obviously a stupid move since Lebabon was not ready to assume control over their own country. Once they left, Hezbolla started assaulting Israel again.
Israel was able to make peace with Egypt and Jordan. They returned captured land, the Sinai, when Egypt recognized Israel's right to exist. I believe Syria is refusing to recognize Israel's right to exist and thus isn't getting the Golan Hights back until they do.
Hamas doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist, either, so they get they ass handed to them on a plate.
Gotta love the Arab argument about willing to live with Israel at the 1967 borders -- AFTER they lost three wars with them. Had they been so willing in 1967, none of this would be an issue.
Yeah those damn Israelis attacking innocent civilians. If only they could figure out how to magically extract the Hezbollah command bunkers from the under the parking garages, apartment buildings, mosques and hospitals where they are built. Or maybe use magic transporters to "beam out" those rockets that they store in the basements of poor Shi'ite Lebanese. Even better come up with magic bullets that only hit the "bad" guys, even when the bad guys hide among civilians so that even if they're killed the worl
Yes, Israel has the right to defend itself as any other country would, BUT i call attacking the civilian population, the utilities and other civilian infrastructure the right response for a extremist movement kiddnapping two (2) people.
This tripe is moderated +4, Insightful? You've got to be kidding me.
This is not the first-- and if Hezbollah carries out it's promises, not the last time Hezbollah will kidnap an Israeli citizen and hold it for ransom. The last time, in 2000, Hezbollah kidnapped 5 Israeli
Care to provide any proof for your baseless assertion? Exactly what do you call dropping a 500-pound bomb on a house with a family sleeping inside? An "oopsie"?
Why sure. Israel has been dropping pamphlets into neighborhoods before they drop bombs, warning civilians to leave the area because an air raid is about to commence.
This is precisely the kind of apologism that emboldens the Israeli government to carry out it's genocidal policies, and it's no accident either that so many people are brainwashed to
Civilians are caught in the crossfire. That is horrible. But Israel is not purposely "attacking the civilian population" as you allege. Israel is attacking military targets that Hezbollah has purposly intermingled amongst civilians. In fact, Israel has taken pains to inform civilians (and thereby tip off Hezbollah too) before attacks by dropping leaflets that basically say "We know there is a Hezbollah ammo dump here, flee now because we will attack soon". Hezbollah purposely endangers the civilans in Lebanon by hiding amongst them. It does this to 1) make the Israelis pause and be reluctant to immediately attack, and 2) when the Israelis do attack, Hezbollah wants to increase the civilian bodycount so they can say "See all the civilans Israel killed!".
If you want to talk about purposely "Attacking Civilians", then you should be pointing the finger at Hezbollah. They are lobbing unguided missles at Isreali cities. When they launch a missle, they can't tell in advance where it will land other than somewhere inside a city. This is indiscrimate bombing of a civlian population.
No state, including Israel, can tolerate either unprovoked attacks on its military or any attack at all on its civilian population. Hezbollah is not a state. It has no sovereign right to maintain an army or make war. Those are rights restricted to states. Any armed action at all by Hezbollah is illegal. Even if it had the right to maintain an army (which it does not) it engages in tactics that are forbidden by international law (hiding amongst civilians, purposely attacking civilians, etc). It's military arm exists for two illegal reasons : threaten Israel and intimidate other Lebanese.
If Israel stops before Hezbollah is either disarmed or destroyed, it will have a continuing military threat on its border; a threat that indiscriminatly attacks its civilian population. No reasonable state will tolerate that as an end solution.
Here is they way this should play out. The UN has already ordered Hezbollah to disarm. See UN resolution 1559 [wikipedia.org]. The resoluation calls for removal of Syrian troops (done), deployment of Lebanese Gov't forces in southern Lebanon, and disbanding of all Lebanese militias (meaning Hezbollah since they are the only one left). Hezbollah has refused to disband and has blocked deployment of the Lebanese Army (Hezbollah is stronger). For resolutation 1559 to be carried out, Hezbollah will have to be forecebly disarmed (by Lebanon [not going to happen], by a UN force [too squimish to happen], or by Israel [now you see what is going on]. Once Hezbollah is disarmed or distroyed, then a new stronger UN force (current UN force is a joke) or NATO force will occupy southern lebanon, and allow the Israelis to withdraw. Once the Israelis (and Hezbollah) are gone, then the Lebanese Army and Police will deploy into the south and secure the border. This is the only long term solution for peace. An immediate cease-fire and return to status-quo-ante is only a recipe for continued periodic warfare. Hezbollah must disarm or be destroyed for long term peace to have a chance.
Israel is attacking military targets that Hezbollah has purposly intermingled amongst civilians
like civilian airports ? power stations ? sewage works ?
pretty big targets to be hit "accidentally".
In fact, Israel has taken pains to inform civilians
And then killed them when they flee their homes in response to those warnings. And then attacked red cross ambulances evacuating the wounded. And attacked the UN convoys taking aid to those too frightened to move. And the unarmed UN observers (in a bunker, apparently detroyed by precision guided weapon, after repeated requests from the UN not to hit those coordinates). And then shelled the UN rescue effort for the observers.
Sure, Hezbolla is throwing back random unguided rockets, but the IDF does not have that excuse, they are supposedly using modern precision guided weapons, it's pretty hard to believe all these are all accidentally off-target.
Finally, today's news quote:
The Israeli military's radio station in south Lebanon today warned that the army "will totally destroy any village from which missiles are fired toward Israel".
So, in their own words, this is defintely purposeful.
The term "anti-semitic" is one of the most abused phrases I have heard. The claim that not liking Jews means you dislike all Semitic people is not only grossly inaccurate, is also pejorative towards other Semitic people such as Arabs and Italians who are not a Jewish people.
The correct phrase would be "anti-Jewish" or "anti-Israeli".
As an Italian I would be honoured to be among Semitic peoples, but we happen to be indoeuropean too.
I agree that anti-semitic is horrifyingly abused, especially by the Israeli government who comprehensibly want to use a strong argument against anyone opposing them exploiting the past history of Europe. But this gradually weakens the racist connotation of the term, and gradually makes it political. The Nazis wanted to kill Jews because their leaders told them the Jews, all Jews, were the root of all evil. N
From IRC, the reason: (Score:5, Informative)
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:Ironic (Score:5, Interesting)
And since he hasn't actually killed anyone in his frustration and rage, he's still miles behind the bomb-flingers of the world in the lameness department.
Parent
Re:Israeli reprisals (Score:4, Insightful)
"At 9:05 AM local time (06:05 CET), on 12 July 2006, Hezbollah initiated a Katyusha rocket and mortar attack on Israeli military positions and villages of northern Israel, injuring at least 8 Israelis[18]. Afterwards, a ground contingent of Hezbollah militants attacked two Israeli armored Humvees on a routine patrol along the Israel-Lebanon border near the Israeli village of Zar'it with anti-tank rockets, capturing two Israeli soldiers, and killing eight." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_ conflict [wikipedia.org])
But it supports your position a lot better to pretend that all they did was capture a couple soldiers, and Israel started the whole thing, right?
Parent
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2)
Come on guys.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I think many of you guys need to readjust your sense of proportionality. This guy has most likely done more to both world peace _and_ open source world than 99% of the whiners on this forum.. and now you are mocking him for not revealing some interpersonal issues and saying ill-considered things in chat *once* when obviously being out of his mind.
Consider this. That guy has
1) worked deeply on a project for six years and has just made a decision to quit it,
2) has just lost a coworker in a bit questionable series of events,
3) is obviously depressed or burned out or both,
4) is constantly under threat while serving in hostile country with no infrastructure of whatsoever and having to remain calm and peaceful while in desperate situation and underpowered,
5) has had harder than normal time in service past six months and
6) people are blaming you for not answering their *software project* emails fast enough, when you have been busy with things 4 and 5.
If you can say you have experienced even *half* of these, let alone simultaneously and are willing to come up and admit it, *then* I can take you seriously when you come and say that you didn't say anything unprintable in that situation. Maybe.
And also remember: english is not his native language. It's more than a bit hypocritical to judge someone you have not even met by his writing in *chat* in *foreign language*, especially when the chat log is spread without his consent by someone who is not willing to reveal his name, nor the context of the discussion.
Parent
Re:Come on guys.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Been there, done that [slashdot.org] but I'm not on record as wanting to nuke various African countries.
Bullshit. "Nazis" and "fuck you jews" comes across p
Re:Come on guys.. (Score:4, Insightful)
- advocates the use of nuclear weapons against Israel
- wishes to join hezbolah in fighting Israel
- harbors hostility toward Jews in general, in addition to Israel
Could you please tell me what of that got lost in translation? I mean, even when I tone down his rhetoric for him to make it sound more palatable, it still doesn't come across very well.Can you think of a possible translation or interpretation of his statements that does not indicate that he advocates genocide against both Israelis and Jews?
Parent
Re:Come on guys.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Even with the posted IRC logs, this may not be the entire story. I haven't scrolled through enough of the 600+ comments yet, and I can't verify the legitimacy of the quotation. But let's assume it's valid. The guy is supposed to be in Afghanistan right now. That means he is taking preventative medication for malaria. At least one of the anti-malarial drugs typically administered by the U.S. military in Afghanistan, mefloquine (a.k.a. Lariam), occasionally causes mental problems [fda.gov]. It's rare - usually, m
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2)
*For those living under a rock, one of the killed UN peacekeepers [bbc.co.uk] was from Finland.
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:5, Informative)
Regardless of stupid things that he said, I think it's VERY poor taste to post an emotional outburst (which was timestamped at 2am - yes, it's real) and to make such a big deal over this.
Move on people...
Parent
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:5, Insightful)
I was part of the peacekeeping mission in Mogadishu, Somalia. Several of my "co-workers" were killed in very deliberate attacks against US and UN forces. However, if I came home and said that I wanted to join Aryan Nations to kill me some black people, I'd be (rightfully) shunned from polite society.
I can empathize with Jani, probably more than can 99.9% of Slashdotters, but that doesn't make his outburst acceptable. Understandable, sure, but acceptable.
Parent
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:4, Insightful)
What's he saying "hell yeah..." and "hehehehe.." to? It seems completely incongruous with the rest of his statements, unless something was left out.
Parent
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:3, Interesting)
I suppose we'll find out sooner or later, I doubt Jani will be silent on the issue much longer. Absence of a response isn't proof he did say and mean it, but it would certainly be very foolish in any other case.
If we follow Occam's razor then surely he would deny the words if the logs aren't true while if they are he would apologise for a sad, emotional rant. I suspect returning from his decision that he cannot work on PHP as
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2)
If it's true, that's a nice little bit of anti-Semitism at the end. He may want to be anti-Israel, but he's just exposed himself as a garden-variety anti-Semite, too.
That said, I hope it's not true, and that this is made up. Any independent corroboration?
-Erwos
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:5, Insightful)
If it's true, that's a nice little bit of anti-Semitism at the end. He may want to be anti-Israel, but he's just exposed himself as a garden-variety anti-Semite, too.
Writing as a fellow Finn, I can assure you that most people here don't know the difference between Jews and Israel. I'm sure Jani only has hard opinions against the government and the politics of the Israel state.
Furthermore, I really think that the anti-semitist card has been used for far too long already. Hitler did a horrible crime against Jews but Israel shouldn't use that to gain political advantage any more. Israel is not the weak little victim in this conflict.
Parent
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:3, Insightful)
I never, ever intended to say that Finns were all Jew-haters, and I definitely don't believe that. I am saying that an
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:4, Informative)
http://wfrv.com/topstories/topstories_story_20618
One of the four UN peacekeepers killed by Israel was a 29-year old Finn.
Parent
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
more logs because the internet likes pasted logs (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
The irc log may be valid (from sfnet) (Score:2)
Anyway, Jani did take part in discussions about Israel on the sfnet.keskustelu.maanpuolustus some five years ago. His opinions were not pro-Israel. This would add credibility to the irc-log. Maybe he knew the Finn who was recently killed in Lebanon by Israel?
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't really think this IRC log is true. PHP has been linked to Zend since PHP3. Zend has had some serious links to Isreal since the beginning. According to http://www.zend.com/company/management [zend.com] Zeev Suraski is a graduate of the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology as is Andi Gutmans. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Php [wikipedia.org]
Independant, trustworthy corroboration: (Score:3, Interesting)
http://news.php.net/php.internals/25044 [php.net]
I hope this settles any speculation about who is or is not a Mossad agent fabricating stories to destroy the internet.
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2)
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:5, Insightful)
Still, someone would have a reason to make a fake irc log in this direction, which can only be done if they'd have a personal grudge against this guy. So if this log is not fake, then it's probably good for everyone that he quit, if it is fake, then it's also clear why there was an atmosphere for him to quit.
The fact that people reason like the one in this log is really shocking, but true. People didn't seem to have learned anything about that we really need to be careful judging people: Not all muslims are terrorists, not all jews are responsible of this action of the Israeli government. Not all people put on the blacklist by air marshalls are a threat for your country. Thinking in black/white contrasts is not only bad for others, it is also very bad for yourself!
Parent
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2)
Unless you work in the UK Met police [bbc.co.uk].
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:3, Funny)
Okay.....and I suppose you believe the internets is a series of tubes.
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed.
However, which one of the four unarmed UN observers killed in the attack was a threat to Israel's existence or its people?
Parent
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2, Informative)
"What I can tell you is this: we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing. The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity."
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNew [www.ctv.ca]
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2, Informative)
Sorry, Hezbollah is the de facto government in that part of Lebanon, and Hezbollah most assuredly does take orders (and thousands of missiles, and uniformed military 'observers') from Iran.
Israel occupied that part of Lebanon for over 20 years, and unilaterally withdrew. After the withdrawal, Hezbollah took over again and resumed lobbing missiles over the border. I had high hopes for democracy and a civil society in Lebanon after last year's events,
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2)
THIS is +5 Informative?
Hizballah 'poked the bear' with an unprovoked attack on Israel, Israel responded with all-out-war. Many civilians are dying on both sides (far more on the Lebanese side), some hundreds so far. This is terrible for all of the civilians involved. And I grant that neither Israel nor Hizballah are 'in the
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:3, Insightful)
Israel withdrew from Southern Lebanon in compliance with a UN resolution; the so-called "Land for Peace" act. It was obviously a stupid move since Lebabon was not ready to assume control over their own country. Once they left, Hezbolla started assaulting Israel again.
Didn't you find it interesting
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:4, Insightful)
Hamas doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist, either, so they get they ass handed to them on a plate.
Gotta love the Arab argument about willing to live with Israel at the 1967 borders -- AFTER they lost three wars with them. Had they been so willing in 1967, none of this would be an issue.
Charles
Parent
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2)
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:3, Insightful)
This tripe is moderated +4, Insightful? You've got to be kidding me.
This is not the first-- and if Hezbollah carries out it's promises, not the last time Hezbollah will kidnap an Israeli citizen and hold it for ransom. The last time, in 2000, Hezbollah kidnapped 5 Israeli
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:3, Informative)
Why sure. Israel has been dropping pamphlets into neighborhoods before they drop bombs, warning civilians to leave the area because an air raid is about to commence.
This is precisely the kind of apologism that emboldens the Israeli government to carry out it's genocidal policies, and it's no accident either that so many people are brainwashed to
Israel is not "attacking the civilian population" (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want to talk about purposely "Attacking Civilians", then you should be pointing the finger at Hezbollah. They are lobbing unguided missles at Isreali cities. When they launch a missle, they can't tell in advance where it will land other than somewhere inside a city. This is indiscrimate bombing of a civlian population.
No state, including Israel, can tolerate either unprovoked attacks on its military or any attack at all on its civilian population. Hezbollah is not a state. It has no sovereign right to maintain an army or make war. Those are rights restricted to states. Any armed action at all by Hezbollah is illegal. Even if it had the right to maintain an army (which it does not) it engages in tactics that are forbidden by international law (hiding amongst civilians, purposely attacking civilians, etc). It's military arm exists for two illegal reasons : threaten Israel and intimidate other Lebanese.
If Israel stops before Hezbollah is either disarmed or destroyed, it will have a continuing military threat on its border; a threat that indiscriminatly attacks its civilian population. No reasonable state will tolerate that as an end solution.
Here is they way this should play out. The UN has already ordered Hezbollah to disarm. See UN resolution 1559 [wikipedia.org]. The resoluation calls for removal of Syrian troops (done), deployment of Lebanese Gov't forces in southern Lebanon, and disbanding of all Lebanese militias (meaning Hezbollah since they are the only one left). Hezbollah has refused to disband and has blocked deployment of the Lebanese Army (Hezbollah is stronger). For resolutation 1559 to be carried out, Hezbollah will have to be forecebly disarmed (by Lebanon [not going to happen], by a UN force [too squimish to happen], or by Israel [now you see what is going on]. Once Hezbollah is disarmed or distroyed, then a new stronger UN force (current UN force is a joke) or NATO force will occupy southern lebanon, and allow the Israelis to withdraw. Once the Israelis (and Hezbollah) are gone, then the Lebanese Army and Police will deploy into the south and secure the border. This is the only long term solution for peace. An immediate cease-fire and return to status-quo-ante is only a recipe for continued periodic warfare. Hezbollah must disarm or be destroyed for long term peace to have a chance.
Parent
Re:Israel is not "attacking the civilian populatio (Score:5, Informative)
like civilian airports ? power stations ? sewage works ?
pretty big targets to be hit "accidentally".
In fact, Israel has taken pains to inform civilians
And then killed them when they flee their homes in response to those warnings.
And then attacked red cross ambulances evacuating the wounded.
And attacked the UN convoys taking aid to those too frightened to move.
And the unarmed UN observers (in a bunker, apparently detroyed by precision guided weapon, after repeated requests from the UN not to hit those coordinates).
And then shelled the UN rescue effort for the observers.
Sure, Hezbolla is throwing back random unguided rockets, but the IDF does not have that excuse, they are supposedly using modern precision guided weapons, it's pretty hard to believe all these are all accidentally off-target.
Finally, today's news quote:
So, in their own words, this is defintely purposeful.
Fact is neither side cares about civilian lives.
Parent
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sorry, I respect people that act on principle.
Leaving something he clearly has had strong ties to as a point of principle is not a small matter.
I wouldn't ask someone to act against their conscience just to boost an open source project.
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2)
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2)
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2)
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:2)
Re:From IRC, the reason: (Score:3, Informative)
The correct phrase would be "anti-Jewish" or "anti-Israeli".
nitpicking (Score:3, Insightful)
As an Italian I would be honoured to be among Semitic peoples, but we happen to be indoeuropean too.
I agree that anti-semitic is horrifyingly abused, especially by the Israeli government who comprehensibly want to use a strong argument against anyone opposing them exploiting the past history of Europe. But this gradually weakens the racist connotation of the term, and gradually makes it political. The Nazis wanted to kill Jews because their leaders told them the Jews, all Jews, were the root of all evil. N