I agree with the sentiments expressed in all of the comments here, it is true that we should do something about it, but I fear that people like us are in the minority. I and my husband have posted to forums about these issues and are ridiculed and insulted.
People seem to think that we are paranoid, even after a detailed explination of what is at stake.
I am at a loss as to what to do to try and raise awareness, I don´t want my children to blame me in the future for being asleep on the job. We all have a responsibility as custodians of freedom for future generations.

katharine, leeds, uk

There is nothing quite like fully embracing Socialism is there? When will you get the idea that Socialism is a bad thing?

Koolaid Killsus, PR of Charlottesville, US/Virginia

1984... how much more can we take? Control, monitoring and surveillance laws being passed left, right and centre. Political opposition seemingly non-existent, minimum media coverage and no protests. Are we just going to let Britain slide into a police state? An extreme statement, yes - but the way things are going...

In my opinion it's time to fight back. And I don't mean with protests either, as has been proved they will change nothing. Reclaim the streets, anyone? Something needs to be done, Orwell gave us the warning, why aren't we listening?

Josh, York, UK

1984... how much more can we take? Control, monitoring and surveillance laws being passed left, right and centre. Political opposition seemingly non-existent, minimum media coverage and no protests. Are we just going to let Britain slide into a police state? An extreme statement, yes - but the way things are going...

In my opinion it's time to fight back. And I don't mean with protests either, as has been proved they will change nothing. Reclaim the streets, anyone? Something needs to be done, Orwell gave us the warning, why aren't we listening?

Josh, York, UK

The Bible is a script. You don't have to follow along. It doesn't have to be 666 for all. It's up to YOU to create reality.

Brother, london,

After Hitler occupied The Netherlands in 1940, our Royal Family, Prime Minister and Cabinet fled to London. But the lower officials like Town Majors and public officials who couldn’t flee were allowed by Hitler to keep their jobs and all started obediently working for him and the Gestapo, their ennemy and suppressors. I don’t blame them for they all had family to feed.
By order of Hitler they designed an identity card for all Dutchmen, 14 years and older, with photo and fingerprint.
From then, Hitler’s Gestapo knew exactly where they could find the jews and killed them all.
When they need more people to work in their war industry it was easy to summon Dutchmen to report themselves for duty in Germany. And so they did. If you had no identification card then you got no food stamps and no food. So, what can you do? Nothing. Think about it. Hitler was our oppressor, not our own government. But how can you trust your own government? But you voted for them and if you think they can’t see past the end of their noses then blame yourself. Don’t cry.

cornelis broodmaker, rotterdam, nederland

i think braveheart said it well:

FFFFRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDOOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elizabeth, Hamilton,

To the americans who have commented in here, I strongly suggest you learn what is exactly in front of your law makers and what is to come, because you have lost more freedom's than the british so far, only most of you don't realise it because it has all been tucked away in the back of other bills.

Richard, nowhere,

If you guys would take a minute to read your Bibles you might not all be so shocked and appalled. It doesn't matter how many people rant and rave and take a stand. Eventually the hinderer of lawlessness will be taken away that the man of sin will be revealed ( 2 thes. chap 2). And he will cause all, small and great, rich and poor, free or bond to take a mark in their right hand or forehead. And noone will be able to buy or sell without that mark. (Rev. 13:16-17). Most people think that all of us who believe in the bible are crackpots, but there is not a political, economical, or natural phenomenon taking place today that wasn't clearly and explicitly foretold.

Les, Warren, MI

I monitor what is happening in your part of the world as i am in the US. I notice: The US has a tendency to ape the same policies in the UK although at a later time. Something tells me there is a big picture which involves a World Central Government....As such, because things start in the UK and many in the US do not pay attention until it is too late, you "blokes" need to start rainsing bloddy hell instead of beiong complacent about giving away yoiur freedoms.

josah, earth, cosmic

How dare they? Do they have no shame? Is there no limit to their evermore disgusting ideas for how to control and monitor us? When will they stop? When will they feel they have sufficient control and knowledge for their needs?
Something is wrong here. This situation is totally unnatural. Our parents didn't give birth to us to live in this kind of world. We should never have let it get this far. The government is (or rather should be) our servant. It should be there to look after the people that form our society. It is supposed to have our best interests at the core of its operations. But this is not how it is. Wen ow have a government which is totally obsessed by its own omnipotence. And none of the other parties would be any better, I'm sure. Well there are 60 million of us, surely a few of us will dare to make a stand.

B Good, Stasiville,

If things continue as they are and the Government gets if way, we will soon be living in a police state where the forces of the state will know everything about everybody and all opposition will be crushed. It is time for people to stand up and say enough is enough, we will not stand for this. Reject the governments I.D. card scheme and decline to be enrollled in Big Brothers control system. It is time to stand up and defend our freedoms. Freedoms which our fathers and grandfathers fought and died for in two world Wars. It is time to roll back the power of the state and defend our liberties.

L.R. Kirkland, Nuneaton, U.K.

Aside the invaision of privacy does anyone have any research on the long term effects of iris scanning on health.

I will not allow my children to have lasers shot at their iris' and would be prepared to go to court to get them a passport without it.

Anyone else sick of this "policy first, thought later" government.

Si, Reading,

well well welll, im on the other side of the pond and by god it is ridiculous how may people will use the idea Well if I have nothing to hide so let me be a good citizen and give up some more liberty. I am in the us and there are two things I still like about this country it is big so implementation would take longer than in the small geographic area of the U.K. The second is there would be bigger back lash here, the spirit of civil liberty is dying yet not extinct if the us. Listen I wanted to visit there yet if the uk is going to push this more this american will stay out of the uk for vacation. States already have enough information on westerners so why would a populace freely give them more?

josh, dearborn heights, usa mi

So then why don't you guys get together and tear down the buldings there? Get 51% of the population and storm the streets. Even here in the US as elsewhere, if we allow it to happen, then we deserve it.

B Young, Delta, GA

As an American (Republican, Bush supporter, etc) living here in the UK - never thought I'd be saying this - but am warming up to the ACLU's (American Civil Liberties Union) cause (is there an equivalent here in the UK??). CCTVs, suggested car monitoring, Oyster cards to monitor your movement on public transport, and now fingerprinting of our children. Britain may no longer be ruled by a monarch, but it's certainly ruled by a government obsessed with monitoring every move of its citizens - as in George Orwell's '1984'. Thank goodness the government doesn't seem all that good at handling the information it does have. How sad that our our rights and freedom to privacy hangs on the incompetencies of the governing bureaucracy. What guarantees do we have, however, that a Tory government would be any different? Would like to hear more discussions by the leading candidate on this point...

Mary Johnson, London,

support the no2id campaign.
I think it is totally degrading to have to be forced to have no control over how your own personal identity be that dna, fingureprints or iris scans are used. To bre treat as guilty without having committed any crime is demeaning, degrading and against everyones human rights.

diane, sunderland, tyne and wear

I protest at the idea that myself and any children I may have in the future will automatically be treated as suspects to any crime committed in the UK, simply becuase we'll be on the fingerprint database via our passports.

It is too much. It won't prevent crime. It'll simply be another tax and an opportunity for the system to get it wrong and lock up the wrong people.

Fortunately, as my wife is German, we'll be able to apply for German passports for any children we eventually have.

Duncan, Crawley, UK

Why are people so worried about technological advances in recognition techniques? We should all be kicking up a fuss over the erosion of the rights of the law abiding herd versus the rights of the individual criminal.

Catriona Straine-Urquhart, Edinburgh, Midlothian

I'm also opposed to ID cards.

But I find the comments above a bit rich. As a frequent traveller to the US , I'm amazed how meekly US citizens accept demands to produce ID b( y non-governmental peopel ) - in liquor stores, bars, theme parks, and public & private buildings. More or less anywhere anyone feels like it. It's offensive. There's really no comparison in the UK. The US has pursued invasive personal information gathering for years and now extend this to the rest of the world ,demanding all visitors to the US submit to fingerprinting.

And no, you can't have your home inspected for not owning a TV. This is silly.

jon king, London,

I do not understand what all the fuss is about I have carried an Identity card in one form or another for the last 67 years. The majority of the working population of the UK currently carries some form of Identification, The costs might be high but so is the average wage and £9 per year is not so outrageous.

David Fraser, Mazarrom, Spain

For goodness sake, most European have either already converted or started to convert to this kind of passport. It's not unique to Britain, it's got nothing to do with Blair. The Conservatives may say they'll scrap the plan, but they can't.

Starling, Lancaster,

All 13 year old plus children are already logged on a secret Connexions database run by Capita Holdings. It holds Data about the children's parents, siblings and other relatives extracted from children by an "Outreach Worker" without the presence of a chaperone to protect the child. Even the Police can't to do this. You are not allowed to know what is included about you, so you can't correct errors. It is not covered by the Data Protection Act. Data is kept until the child is 24, though could be 29, and is available to any future employer, with all errors it may have. There is course no promise the files will be destroyed then.
My daughter's Salary and my Pension is paid through them. Caught speeding in Wales? Guess who can access your information from the DVLA? Capita Holdings. Look them up on Google. They have fingers in so many pies. Nearly everybody in the UK must be in their Data Banks. With ID cards and this data, Goodbye democracy, Hello George Orwell's 1984.

B.P.Russell, Windsor, England

For the now-familiar combination of the authoritarian with the incompetent we are becoming used to in Britain (with stealth taxes thrown in), this is the biggest story of the lot.

Which mad fiend is behind all this? Tony Blair didn't come with all this himself did he.

Martin, Birmingham,

Not only could the information be used for future despots to single out people but I can foresee that the information could be sold off to market researchers or insurance companies to raise a bit of capital for the government.

sally, cardiff, uk

Methinks it is time for the worms to turn... not so much for the prevalence of surveilance in one form or another, but bcause this government seems hell bent on raising loads of taxes to line the pockets of the private firms who will provide the technologies... whilst our NHS falls apart, as do our schools, and our farming communities are buried in paperwork and nonsense, because the Government screwed up, but wants to deflect the blame to others... just as it does every time it wants another excuse to cut back services, but raise the cost for doing so!

Julian Pearson, Sawston, UK

in the UK, you can already have your home inspected for the "crime" of not owning a TV

Mark Joshi, Melbourne, Australia

as I sit here in WA state, British for almost half a century, I am sad for the UK as I see this kind of thing. I hear the "slippery slope" phrases, read people saying that folk ought to resist or defy this intrusion... but, I know they won't. You know it too. Of course "they" certainly know it...

I wait with anticipation for my US naturalization as the process advances this summer. Of course it's not perfect here, but my god... how far has the UK come ? This is one more story that convinces me that I am making the right choice.

John Rankin, Auburn, WA

What are you doing? Making a prison state out of the UK? I have never seen the amount of stealth taxes, fees and just plain restrictions placed upon the populace! Are you ALL criminals? Why does whitehall have to have complete data and identification for everyone?

They are proposing to inspect all homes, monitor all cars and driving, perhaps adding chips to all citizens is next. PLEASE keep Tony Blair THERE!

John , Phoenix Arizona , USA

I 've read that each Brit is recorded on cameras and videos 300 times a day. Cameras on street corners, in buildings, and now fingerprinting the kids. It's hard to understand how you fine folks can be so passive with this extensive governmental idiocy and intrusion into your every movement. You know, they won't stop until you stand up to them. I've always admired the British for standing so firm during WWII and against all odds. It's time to end this.

Kayle Kirchner, Tucson, Arizona USA

It would seem that 100% of the previous comments are against the ID card scheme in particular and the Big Brother state currently being implemented by Labour under threat of terrorism being committed against Britonms, and yet Labour claims that upto 80% of the poplulation favour just such a scheme.

Unless The Times has a 100% editorial bias here, it would seem that actually, approximately 0% + or - 10% are in favour of ID cards rather than 80%. That is hardly a mandate.

Edwin Thornber, Bucharest, Romania

Finger printing young children, what next.
Why can't we be more like the French and rebel against this dictatorial Marxist government. They have been in power far too long and become arrogant. Get rid of them.

Mary, Totnes, U.K.

This story reminds me of a bigger version of what we have in America, where police departments and schools set up booths in malls where they will take your baby's fingerprints, photograph and hair sample and DNA swab for free to "help keep your child safe" in case they are ever "kidnapped".

Now, I am just a stupid American, but could someone please explain to me how having a database of fingerprints will prevent the fingerprinted from being kidnapped or killed in the first place? Or once they are, how it will suddenly return them to the safety of their own family? Just because I have the vehical identification number for my car doesn't mean it won't be stolen, chopped up for parts and then never seen again. Why don't braindead parents wake up and start asking questions before just handing over their childrens' personal information that will affect them for the rest of their lives?

Rick Taylor, Portland, Oregon, USA

I don't know what a "boondogle" is, (Mark Callow), but it seems to sum up this ID card scheme with it's accompanying national identity register to perfection. It must be killed off because it will not be "fit for purpose" and the predicted cost is obscene. The excessive rise in the cost of a passport must be a deliberate ploy by the government in order to narrow the gap between a passport without the ID card and a passport with the ID card.
At present the big banks are being made to justify their charges, make the government do the same.

gordon, evesham, england

How long will it be before every child born in the UK will have their DNA taken ? ....... "1984" .... has well and truly arrived !

Norman Tomlinson, Lancaster, Lancashire

This is just another aspect of the Government's attempts to introduce a data base state for the control of its citizens. Why are we surprised? Well, because we do not see the considerable reductions in our civil liberties as it has been coming little by little. The government is either being disingenuous about the issues or they just do not see the future pitfalls for our traditional way of life. Just imagine what a boon this would be for a future extreme right or left wing government. The BNP or its equivalent will immediately be able to identify minority groups, as the Nazis attempted to do in the 1930s with identity cards.

John Edwards (Prof), Cambridge, England

George Orwell was quite the prophet wasn't he? His ideas were dead on, just off on the date of 1984. But it appears that the British are willing sheep to be led to the laughter. The Indian and Arab populations are growing ... maybe there would be more freedom under an Islamic state. The British government don't make a very strong case for Western 'democracy'.

Brad, Duluth, USA/MN

ID cards , this is just the tip of the iceberg, first it was a 'common market' since then so many other 'liberties' have been stolen by lies and deceipt , our fishing rights-our right to innocence till proven guilty-our right to govern ourselves-our laws being handed over to a foreign power- the selling off of our country without even allowing its people a referendum-the dumbing down of our education system-a crumbling NHS-stealing the fruits of their labour from our elderly when they die-it does not get much lower than that -----YET! no sir for me there is only one party willing to take on these Greedy Goliaths UK Independence party, even through the recent 'troubled waters' the main message is still loud and clear-BRITAIN MUST GOVERN HERSELF if we are to expect any respect and trust from our future generations.

Molly Bennett, Eastleigh/hants, England

Not only am I against the proposed identification card scheme ( with all its connotations) but I am extremely concerned that the Government cannot guarantee that all illegal immigrants, terrorists and potential terrorists who may be entering this country. Until the Government can make that commitment, the scheme is utterly worthless in terms of offering protection to the public. It will become nothing more than a method whereby the ever-expanding Civil Service can spy upon the British citizen.
I intend to renew my passport this year so as to avoid the compulsion attached to the new procedures.

Thomas Restell, Bexhill,

How can it be that this Home Office document about fingerprinting children says there will be "hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers on the database". Last year the Government figures show 23,000 asylum seekers arrived while visa immigrants were about 590,000. Thus asylum seekers make up less than 4% of the annual intake. The document is probably as wrongheaded as most of their other policies, but clearly it is not the asylum seekers they always persecute who make up the big numbers, but the visa immigrants.

Edwin Fleming, Portstewart, United Kingdom

The proponents of this scheme claim it will help protect us against terrorism. They never explain *how*. The perpetrators of the 7/7 bombings were all British citizens. How exactly would 7/7 have been prevented if they had all had ID cards? There is no way. The proponents are cynically using people's fear to get this abominable scheme accepted.

People are far better than computers at recognizing faces. If the immigration staff actually spent a few seconds looking at people's faces and the examing their passports instead of staring at their computer screens they could detect most phonies without the vast expense of this boondoggle for the IT industry.

One of the pleasures of being a British Citizen used to be that I could leave and reenter the coutry without any records being made. The entry procedure being a careful examination of my passport and my face. Sadly no more.

Mark Callow, San Jose, California

well thats me sorted, im a old-labour and up until now new-labour die hard, being from the north 'n all (everything wrong with this country imho is still down to thatchers britain). however in this light i will revoke my support of labour and invest in a party that view civil liberties as sacred.

Daniel-john, Manchester, England

Some of your own great thinkers and authors tried to warn about this. You will be safe secure cozy slaves. Then you will just be slaves.

john, USA, USA

soon we will have to unite in silence and aparently we will start with deep spiritual understanding of our faith,priorities and church rites only again be at catacombes,because the spirit and morality denied.People rather like not to grow from inside.Out there a lot trying undermine human existence and the grace of being human.Time to weight or else.

rai, LONDON,

vote out Labour at the first opportunity...

tony, Leicester, Police State

Everyone at my school already had their fingerprints taken last year. They claimed it was for 'easier use when checking books out of the library".

Strange how we don't have a fingerprint scanner in the library.

sam, manchester,

Can Identity Card be used in replacement of passport when travel around EU member states [as the case when Spaniards travel to the UK] - so long of course one does not seek to travel outside the EU. If so, I am in favour of Identity Card. However, if identity card cannot be used as a travel document for travel around Europe -then the scheme is a waste of taxpayers’ money. Why not reallocate the funds to the nurses who deserve a descent pay rise for their hard work! The purpose of ID card is to identify a person - why not then make possession of passport mandatory from birth for all UK citizens. Passport after all serves to (a) identify the holder and its citizenship (b) used as travel document. Why not simply make the carrying of passport by everyone [irrespective of citizenship] mandatory. Moreover, it will do away with the need of ID card. The cost of an infrastructure to cater for the ID card can easily be diverted to issue and enhance the technology of the existing passport; plus it will still be at a lesser cost to the taxpayers. Oops did I just give this government a kick in the real on common sense.

Dominik, london, england

Amazing. Horrifying.

I'll be voting Tory for the first time at the next election.

Rob, bristol,

The only solution to the 1984 state which is being brought about is to vote for ANY party whatsoever rather than the present incumbents at any election. They are trying to bring to an end hundreds of years of hard won rights and freedoms. Are the M.P.s who were voted in as our representatives totally spineless in allowing this appaling to try to get away with all this?

Clive Evrall, Fillongley, England

A fact for anyone willing to listen! Anyone can buy a fake document, indeed the new ones are easier to copy, it is only a matter of having basic nerd knowledge of IT. There is more skill involved in forging an old computer-less passport than anything likely to replace them. This is only a huge tax increase, and the mother of all costly databases that don't work! But than again this country is going that way anyhow. I was born in a dictatorship, I have a feeling I will see a worse one before I die!

Jondi , London,

One reader asks, "How far is this from Britain becoming a 'police state'?" Um... do you guys still use inches? Because, you are less than an inch from being a police state. I am an American, who has lived abroad much of my life. I cringe at the shredding of personal liberties that my government had perpetrated.

However, you lot -- and the Australians -- have outdone us. I wonder what V is up to these days.

Anders Chydenius, Miami, FL, USA

Nulabour should simply insert under our skins a chip that can be read by sensors at strategic locations - much like Oyster cards. The technology already exists to be able to do this. This way they can track us even when we are not in our GPS black-box monitored cars. Surely the technology can be taken further? The chip should monitor our conversations and discharge an electric 'shock' current whenever we make inappropriate remarks such as 'God help us when Gordy becomes PM'. Arrrrrrrgggggh

Pravin, (Free)UK ,

We all gave up our rights when we holistically began trusting government for every bit of our security.

Benjamin Franklin is still one of the greatest geniuses ever.

David Dietrich, Newport Beach, California

I wouldn't worry. I don't think Labour will be able to get out of the hole they seem intent on digging for themselves by the next election. I

Neil, Brighton,

Sad government...they were marxists before the election

bill okeefe, london,

As an expat living here in Canada how will the fingerprint and other requirements be provided. How many overseas passports are issued annually and how prohibitive will be the travel costs to attend embassies and consulates in oreder to fullfil the new requirements?

Malcolm Murray, Hamilton, Canada

I have to agree with Sarah in Liverpool. It is all by design. It is all part of forming a global government. In the United States we are fighting the American Union. Compartmentalized groups in the American Government are doing the same here. It is up to the people to wake up.
If we do not wake up it will just be surfs and lords.

JJ, Warne, North Carolina

What a Big deal !!! I am 67 years now and I remember to have my first Identity Card form the Primary first School exam before the next admition exam to the firts years of high-school ( Lyceum)! And this meant taking the fingerprinters!!!. With 9 years old , we felt important, mixting up with adults. Why not ? Who cares to have your fingerprints in Record ? Who cares if an honest , vertical, citizen has a fingerpring taken for life ? Does he cares ? I doubt since I was 9 years old I have my fingerprinters registered . I must tell you how comfortable it is when you behaviour with honourl to your Citizenship and through what mafias try to catch you - you have your fingerprints to help you denning your involvement with what criminal gang is trying to involve you. I am for the fingerprints.!!!

aurora tapdinhas, Lisbon, portugal, Portugal

It would surely be cheaper and simpler for us all to have a unique barcode number stencilled on our foreheads or maybe an identity number tatooed onto our wrist!

How far is this from Britain becoming a 'police state'?

Tony, Kent, England

We are approaching a stage where a family of four may have to pay £400 simply for the passports to go on holiday. This is because Labour has completely screwed up on immigration and border security for the last ten years. Aside from the civil liberties implication of all of this - which are horrendous - it seems that the government is going to penalise anybody who wishes to leave the country [and those are an increasing number] with this passport tax. It's not as though you can shop around elsewhere for a cheaper passport

Richard Madge, Bexhill on Sea, UK

What is going on here? It seems to me that Aldous Huxley's prognostications are becoming a reality. Everyone's asleep. People are more interested in Britney And Nicole than their forthcoming enslavement.
We look back at our history & shake our heads in disgust when considering the days of serfdom, yet we are no more free.
When are people going to stand up and shout "I'm a human being & I'm not going to take this anymore"?
Orwell must be rolling in his grave!

sarah, liverpool ,

England died many years ago. I don't really know what to call this country I am living in. It is part of this pro-corporate superstate that is called the European Union. What is really happening is shocking and I cannot believe the local people have not yet revolted and kicked out the current government as it continues to economically pillage the middle and lower classes. Every idea this government has benefits only one group of people - corporate share holders. It just makes life worse for everyone else.

john, london, uk