i think that a few cops should be carrying wepons just for safty in london but i also think the death penlty should come bk aswell.
it should only be used on certain cases

urmum43, brighton, east sussex

The way things would change is not 2 give every policeman guns becuase we would create a gun society where everyone would carry guns n that would create problems. What needs to happen is increased border controls in the UK because guns arent being made in the uk but in war zones and if guns werent being brought into the UK and being sold for under £100 then the gun crime would dry up. And stop looking to other place like the USA for inspiration because it is a different place and bringing the death penalty is not an option because that would be a step back.Statisics are not 2 be trusted because you could find any stat 2 support your arugument. But some of these people do need long sentences but they need some sort of training so they dont do these things again. I dont like operation trident and I think it should be stopped because murder is wrong no matter what the race of people involed.
focus on all murders. putting people to clean up in pink wont work cos wearing pink is in

Simon Phillp, Chelsea,

'A country is more interested in war and invasion when children are sleeping at railway stations... They've been let down by a nation and left in the streets where its evil, little kids surrounded by knives and heroin needles' - Devlin

I completely agree with AnneMarie
It is all very well for people to comment on this page saying how hideous these stabbings are and yes i agree...
However, most, but NOT ALL of these people have more than likely never had to live in any kind of bad conditions... They havent been brought up in this kind of culture where you HAVE to know certian things and you HAVE to know how to act.
I am lucky enough to live in a very nice area where anytime things in the places i hang out in get to messed up i can go to but for these kids this is their life.
Nobody has ever believed in them. Their parents almost EXPECT failure in their school work and their life in general.
You have NO right to chat about any of this unless you have experienced it first hand.

East London, LDN,

Until we stop blaming 'society', 'races', 'government', etc etc, we will not hold the individual responsible for his or her own actions.

These 'children' should never again see the light of day for what they did.

Pathetic 'blame' games always forget to blame and make accountable the people responsible for the crime.

i.e. the ones who did it.

John Scott, Midlands, UK

The ignorant will blame this "Global Social Trend" on multicultural integration, racial underclass culture etc. We all know that this emerging trend is based on the dominant political ideology currently practiced in the globe that portrays money, power, sex etc as the desired objective of man and undermines the spiritual and moral pursuits as inconsequential. What is happening in London is happening all over the world, but in different formats such as prostitution, drugs, alcoholism, racism, wars, etc. It transcends all races white , black or green, where you are and what race you belong in the world and what you are currently experiencing in life leads to how you will behave to the circumstances around you. The solution is a true revelation of our purpose on planet earth. The human race seems to be lost, you just have to look all around you and you will notice that we are lost.

enzo, london,

Does anyone know whether the UK is like the US so far as "citizen/subject rights?" In the US, if illegal Mexican's cross the US border and the mother births the child, it impliedly is conferred full US citizenship and rights. This comports with congressional law and the Supreme Court's judical blessing. Can't the UK simply banish these perpetual loser classes? I wish we could in the US. I believe it may well be the downfall of this country.

Anon., Sothern, CA, USA

People, now please, there were so many, a public street in the middle of London, good god and no one intervened, THIS IS ABSOLUTELY DISTUSTING HOW CAN WE CLAIM NO ONE COULD HAVE HELPED?!!!?? tHIS IS A PETTY EXCUSE, THESE WERE CHILDREN(they had school uniform on) IF PEOPLE HAD COME TOGETHER AS A TEAM TO SUPPORT THEIR BROTHERS AND SISTERS THEN THESE DEMONS COULD HAVE BEEN OVERCOME. Who can disprove this claim? NOT ONE OF YOU, BECASUE NO ONE TRIED! Forget all this talk of pathetic things like,'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' this is utter rubbish. Something has to be done, yes we can all say that and righlty so but do we have the power to do it ourselves? The battle of good and evil is constantly changing, if those in the street all helped each other this could have been prevented. You looked out your window or from your car and saw these youths chanting and looking 'dodgy', but you told yourselves it wouldnt be anything 'BIG', WRONG!!!!!!!!

Katie , Nottingham, UK

One thing that I notice is a lot of people overseas suggest intervening would have been a good idea. You know, in the UK we're not actually allowed to hurt anyone. So apart from the danger of getting hurt yourself by intervening in the first place, you then have the added worry of facing prosecution if you accidentally hurt one of the attackers. You're not even allowed to use force to defend your own property over here. In fact, the police aren't allowed to use a great deal of force either.

When I was in New York earlier this year I felt safe. Police everywhere, it was great and I've never felt so at ease. In London I invariably fear for my life. Should we have a policeman on every corner? Yeah, pretty much! Plus we need a judicial system that works and some jails to put offenders in. To think I work myself into the ground all week, just to leave my home at the weekend because the area where I live is too dangerous to be in - it's sad that things have turned out this way.

Sam Nicholson, Basingstoke,

As an American, this reminds of when Kitty Genovese was murdered in broad daylight in the 1960s, and nobody did anything. That was shocking at the time, but now it would just be a little story on the local news. Britain is going down the same path (still a long way to go - London's murder rate isn't a tenth that of my city), and your next several decades will probably parallel our recent history. There will undoubtedly be some sort of right-wing, law-and-order reaction to this.

One difference is that it's probably not an option to abandon the cities for the suburbs, as white middle-class Americans did, due to space constraints. Maybe that just means that the law and order movement will be that much stronger.

r23, Kansas City, USA

Poor, doomed English.

mik, san francisco,

of course a part of the problem is society,yet there was the same problem 20 years ago, yet wasnt as bad as it is now. the teenagers need to so we cant just blame society and if you think capital punishment should be brought back,well ask yourself this,would you be willing to take a persons life...........

danny, london, london

There are many reasons as to why the UK is going down the pan, and the chance of being randomly killed is the main reason why I have no intention of returning to the UK to live. Where I live in Singapore, the local citenship may have other issues to worry about, such as the perceived lack of 'free speech', with the government facing no opposition, but it ultimately has the best interests of its people at heart (we're not talking N Korea here . . .). Here, we can walk the streets safely, my wife is able to travel on her own at night and I do not have to worry that when I leave for work in the morning, I will not end up dead just because someone wants my mobile phone. And what is the most refreshing thing that you see out here? Youngsters that have respect. Respect for authority, respect for other people, and respect for life - 3 things that seem to be lacking in the UK right now.

Dave, Singapore,

It is just scaring... There is so much being done in terms of favouring young criminals. Most of the crimes committed by them refer to their peers. And really, why not to patrol the streets? In some cities you might be afraid of going out after 7 p.m. Even going in group or with a partner is sometimes not enough... What will government say?

Agnieszka Leja, Wolverhampton,

Firstly, Carl of Jerusalem mentioned 'religion of peace' - I presume he meant Christian (the religion to which most of the young gangsters belong) - personally I dont think that christian upbringing would lead to this behaviour. The state run schooling system is failing the young people of this country - esp in racial ghettoes - most of us who can afford it are heading for the independant sector! It is really a sad state of affairs in a first world country. As Jeremy Paxman said recently Blair is making us a nation of alcoholics and gamblers! Very worrying indeed.

Dr Hasnain, london, UK

As long as the nation's opinion-formers, the liberal law-makers and the social-policy implementers live in comfortable, unproblematic, affluent areas NOTHING WILL CHANGE. Issues of disorder, vandalism and abuse don't affect them so why should they be bothered?

Chris Thomas, Oxford, England

To Miles Littlefield, Wisonsin, USA:

You are 100% right. Letting people carry guns will most certainly take care of the problem.
Maybe you should try reading your local newspapers instead...

Joseph Tura, Hamburg, Germany

All this talkabout the 'youth of today' and disbelief about how they could act like this...... YOU made the youth of today. YOU made them like this.
You want to know why black kids gravitate towards gangs? Or why Muslim teenagers are attracted by fundamentalists? Or why working class teenagers in N.I. decorate their bebo pages with messages of hate to the unionists/nationalists? Because they're completely marginalised, by people like you.

It's all very well for you to sit at your computer in your nice home with the car in the driveway and the job waiting for you tomorrow but YOU made these kids like this. How many times have you crossed the street because a black teenager in a hoodie was walking towards you, most likely listening to his iPod, going back home.How hard is it for him to get an opportunity for a good job?

I'm not excusing anything that was done here, clearly there is something seriously wrong with these kids, but don't think you have the right to sleep well at night

AnneMarie, Ireland,

I lost one of my cusine in Italy Few years back .I do not know why they do that and when they do it what the Police are doing .

All the blame goes to police ,it is there job to make the socity problem free ,if they can not do it they should quite from there job .

And those criminal should bring to capital panishment no matter what is the age .

muhammad mallik, montreal, canada

Good luck to all you people who are left in the u.k. & are normal law abiding citizens, the country is being undone by multiculturalism & the fact that there is a section of society who dont have any respect for anybody or their property. This is compounded by a layer of bleeding heart liberals who will always give these people an excuse for their behavior. Im glad ive left the country behind & emigrated to a country my children will have a chance in.

Alec Yeomans, Nelson, New Zealand

All of the Children involved should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. It really takes a sick kid to taunt then beat someone to death. The kids clearly persued him even as he tried to flee. This is a sad story to read. These days problems like this tend to show up all over the world. Even in defensless countries like Canada, only thier problems revolve around drugs. Looking around day by day, at the world around us, I cannot help but wonder where did the human race get off wrong?

Jake, Traverse City, USA, MI

The gun-control advocates know they cannot disarm everybody in America, so they want to disarm the law-abiding. The criminal element would continue to have guns, and the gun-control advocates could feel warm and fuzzy and bask in their self-admiration. But what would that solve?

Tip Topper, Montpelier, Vermont

It's all very well saying people should have intervened, but sadly the time for that at street level has gone. Do a Google search to see what happens to people who intervene in gang fights in London currently. (People did call the police, which is why they were on the scene within minutes arresting the youths responsible). I fully agree this wouldn’t happen in a London where the mass of law abiding citizens stood up, but we’re not going to get there (again) until people believe the law is on their side. You have to realize that even when youths are caught for violent assault, they are literally let out multiple times. Read this lecture by Sir John Stevens (former head of the London Met) to see exactly how messed up this countries priorities are regarding crime:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,664344,00.html

Jeremy, London,

Perhaps if Britain allowed its law-abiding citizens the right to keep arms and defend themselves, this would reduce street crime. Criminals are less likely to break into a house if an owner may be armed. Likewise, muggers and rapists are less likely to attack in a jurisdiction that issues concealed handgun permits to its law-abiding citizens. This theory has worked in the USA. Our jurisdictions with the greatest gun control have the most crime. By contrast, jurisdictions that allow law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms have a significantly lower crime rate. Criminals will always have guns, regardless of gun control. Gun control only robs law-abiding citizens from the inherent natural right of self-defense.

Scott, Houston, Texas, USA

I find it absolutely amazing that American readers have left comments supporting the arming of the general population with hanguns. Perhaps we could all live in a country like the US, which as we all know is a beacon for the rest of the world. Unsurprisingly, the US murder rate for 2005 was 5.6 murders per 100,000 inhabitants (FBI stastistics), rising to 35 per 100,000 for Washington DC and 42 per 100,000 for Detroit. In contrast, London's murder rate was 2.1 per 100,000. To be fair New York, whose murder rate has tumbled recently only had 16.8 murders per 100,000 population. Perhaps the US should spend a little more time teaching its citizens how to count, and a little less time invading oil rich countries trying to find imaginary weapons of mass destruction. After all, the US has done a tremendous job of bringing peace and the rule of law to Iraq (according to the UN, 43 Iraqis were murdered per day in 2006, or 127 per 100,000).

john jenkins, stoke-on-trent, uk

"Lord of the Flies" in an urban setting. Why did none of the neighborhood witnesses intervene???

Mario, Miami, Florida

its so sad. why do people wanna hurt others.. what did he do?..i hope that the people that did this will be caught,,

Anine, nesodden, Norway

I resent that, John. I'm Dutch, not "European". My country is a lot nicer to live in than Britain. In fact, a lot of other European countries are much nicer to live in than Britain. Strangely enough, the Brits still feel the need to blame the EU for everything that's wrong in Britain, even though the rest of Europe seems to be quite able to cope with it, thankyouverymuch.

David: it IS society's fault. Parents who fail to teach their kids respect or shame are part of society too.

P.S. Yes, I'd move, if I could.

Starling, Lancaster,

What I don't understand is what were all these witnesses doing while this was going on? I can understnad their fear of being attacked themselves, but it certainly seems as if not a one them did anything to stop this. Did they call police? How long did this attack last? Too quickly to do anything? Did they holler at them to stop? Some of these witnesses need to give an account of their lack of action.

Marti, Seattle, WA/USA

A sad story repeated all too often nowadays. We left Britain 3 years ago for many reasons and this was one of them; Britain is fast becoming a Godless place with a dangerous shortage of positive male role models. As for the large number of Americans scoffing at the lack of public firearms, no country in its right mind should ever look at the U.S. and want to emulate it in any way.

Greatest country in the world? That title should be reserved for countries with affordable health care systems. Yee Ha!

Paul, Vancouver, Canada

I read this thinking I was looking at an incident in the U.S.-I'm in NYC, this is stunning to read and hearbreaking. This may sound strange, but here some of us rather think that the worst is here and its safer, elsewhere. It seems no where is safe anymore. My heart is with you and yes, those how say parents and youths like this shouldbe punished, absolutely right. There is no excuse on earth for a child to even think of beating to death another living thing. CAn we imagine that every youth dressed in school uniforms at tea time came from a violent home and was abused? unlikely...its deeper than that and clearly and global epidemic.

Racine, NY, United States

It is all down to lack of education. These children have no moral fibre because probably nobody taught them about morality. And good manners.
Parents do not educate their children, teachers are too afraid to do it. If nobody tells them right for wrong, they take for "normal" what they see around (on the street, on the tv, etc). Violence maybe is their normality.

One would wonder what the parents of these children (especially the girls' parents) think about what their children did. But maybe they don't even care...... If they do care, then it is not too late yet... The only one for whom it is too late is the poor murdered boy.

Laura G., Calcot, Berkshire,

Horrible, horrible crime. Scary. Nobody rational can understand it. Why did it happen? Don't know! Why could it happen? Don't know! Why did the kids demand to "kill him"? Don't know! Why does this happen more and more often? Don't know! Would I have stepped-in to stop it while it was happening? Like to think so, but don't know! Will the perpetrators be punished adequately? No, they won't. That's the only question to which we all know the answer, because they're "kids". It's not going to get any better.

Mick, London,

I find it sickening to see so many Americans writing to advocate arming your citizens as the answer to these relatively few cases of lawlessness. We are armed in America, well armed, we have more guns per capita than any country in the world. So obviously we should have NO violent crime, right? Everyone knows better. Read any newspaper from any large city in the U.S. and the number of shootings DAILY would (or should) make your stomach churn.

London is 50 years behind America when it comes to the level of violent crime. Be thankful for that. Don't, under any circumstances, listen to Americans whose solution to every problem in the world is guns and more guns. It sounds appealing but If it worked, our country wouldn't have the insane level of violence we have today.

Trakker, Silver Spring, MD, USA

we have to look at the background these poor children have been through to make them act like this. Maybe if they had better amenities they wouldn’t have all been hanging around with nothing to do. I feel with some time and patience these kids can be moulded into law abiding citizens

Jim O'Hara, glasgow, lanarkshire

I am of mixed Engilsh and Caribbean heritage.

It has not gone unnoticed by anybody that this is a Caribbean issue! Not Black! note that many of the victims are African descented as in this case.

So what is the difference? Africans here seem to relish education, have religious beliefs, respect their parents. Thyey dont all want to be DJ's or find exitement hanging around on street corners commenting and intimidating people, using pigeon English , worrying about mobile ring tones or trainers. IF they do it is when they are 12 not like u, well intoand twenties and thirties.

What is it about us West indians (although I was always an outcaste for having an interest in science and susequently becoming a scientist) that prevents us from maturing?

Having visited JAmaica, the murder capital of the world, where you shout your dislike for somebody and they shout it back, I can see where this unfortunate habit might come from. This street living can only lead to failure.

Mark Joseph , londn, uk

Carl in Jerusalem, that comment displays prejudice, pure and simple. There is no reason to suggests the perpatrators were all Muslim, gangs in South London emerge from social ills not religion. You would do well to keep your mouth shut.

Oliver, London, UK

the girls that said kill him,kill him are the ones that need to be in prison.they are an accesery to murder

david kratsas, anchorpoint, alaska

I just read that at any one time only 1 in 58 of police are actually on patrol to deter crime. That's about 2,500 police walking about in a country of 60 million. Any wonder the streets are out of control? People have forgotten that the police were once there to deter crime - not just to try and pick up the piece hours or days later.
The people here who say that bystanders should have gotten involved are unrealistic, I think. I have seen 1 violent incident and 3 stages were apparent; firstly it doesn't appear that serious, just some people shouting, then shock takes over and you are sort of paralysed, then thirdly fear and uncertainty kicks in. And then before you know it, its over. In addition, these days you are in a no win situation - if you inervene you may be charged with assault.
And why are there always people willing to blame all other causes except the people who did the crime? Nothing excuses stabbing someone to death.
Zero tolerance is the way forward.

Charles, Bath, UK

In view of the state of society today, it would appear that you young black 'pickney' have no sense what soever.
Where are you all getting this anger and bitternes from.....it is the plan of the devil........rebuke it!
The general public are obviously laughing at you......this was their plan........can't you see it?,you are making their jobs easier because they do not even want you here.

Get to grips, get a life (help is available where needed) and do yourself proud.......get a job that pays..........because crime does not pay!
PLEASE TAKE HEED!

In relation to minors being arrested...........the law should be reinforced in order to make their parents responsible.

Bless.

roots and culture, London , England

To the Canadian guy who said, and I quote:

UNTILL We ABOLISH!! poverty, inequity,racism,UNemployment, Drugs and a list of other Social Ills!!!.....Will We be able, to Stop Our Youth from Killing themselves, and US!!

Please! What a load of rhetorical rubbish. Why not add 'World Peace', £1M grants to each World Citizen, oh yeah, and add eco-friendly bath mats to the list while we're at it. Or just simply ABOLISH murder, or idiotic rhetoric.

It seems that New Labour are ahead of you there anyway chappy. They ABOLISH everything. As if that makes it so! We're not on the Star Ship Enterprise you know!

Mark, Birmingham, UK

I do hope I'm wrong but this has all the marks of a homophobic attack.

Tony Konrath, Key West (USA) and London,

Sad very sad

Nitin, Delhi, India

If justice is to come true, then those girls and boys who did this should be executed in full public while their parents sit on first row and watch.
Think about this lad's family. Think how they feel. I live in Norway, and I feel a immense hate against these criminal scums who did this to him. It's terrible that the world has to be like this. Do something about it Mr. Blair! Don't let innocent youth die in your own streets!

Martin, trondheim,

We have the same problems here in the US with black youths who pride themselves in being uneducated, drug addicted, non-white, gangsta thugs. Here is the real shocker. The females are just as serious about the Thug Life as the males.

Here in northern California we work very hard to keep the gangs out. Bloods, Cripts, Asian and Mexican too.

People who want to kill you if you walk on the wrong side of the street or wear the wrong color. Even driving the wrong car can get you "JACKED UP'.

Here in the US, at least for now, We The People have the ability to protect ourselves if we so choose.

Palmer, Anderson, USA/CA

"Surely we need to understand?"!? A group of children chase down a never-before-in-trouble "A" student and brutally murder him in cold blood. What is there to understand? What does Rev. Gusset think he would learn by speaking to these animals? Their monstrous behavior needs to be punished swiftly and severely.

Robert Hyde, Moraga, USA/California

(Can I guess that the alleged lynchers are all adherents of the 'religion of peace'? - Carl in Jerusalem, Jerusalem, Israel)

That's rather unlikely Carl. More likely they weren't any religion at all. I hope they get the lot of them who were involved, including the girls who egged the boys on.

Aaron, Kyoto, Japan

The people involved in the attack should be sentanced to life inprisonment. They should never be let out to see the light of day. I dont care whether they are only 13 or 18, they sould have their lives taken away from them.

Shouting "kill him" "kill him" is a disgrace and completely inhumane and i hope the girls that shouted this are satisfied now. Imagine if it was their own brother's who were chased down and killed while people were cheering the killers on. They should live to regret what they said as such cheering is simply gutless and may have led to the victims fate.

Another gutless act of violence leading to a young boys life being taken away. This violence in young youths is happening so much in london and it seems no-one is learning anything from each fallen victim. Just this week alone there have been several such incidents. The only way to stop this is to make and example out of the perpertrators. They obviously dont value life so should theirs taken away too!!

Jai, Ilford, England

This clearly shows the extent of crude racism and anti-coloured attitude strongly present in contemporary British society. I'm a coloured student living in Northern Ireland, and the racism here is equally rampant. In a bar or a club, if a coloured boy approaches a white girl, he is very often met with the harshest insults from the white boys around him. If the chap is white, this would occur differently. Both young men and women are badly prejudiced against coloured people. Awareness campaigns should begin at secondary school and at undergraduate levels in third level colleges. This kind of hate is the result of a baseless fear cum ignorance, and things should definitely get better if inter-racial coextistance in all aspects (esp relationships, love, sexuality, attraction) is embedded in their minds right from senior school.

Chaminda Weerawardhana, Derry/Londonderry, Northern Ireland UK

You've summed up British society in a nutshell there, Ken.

starling, Lancaster,

Those people who witnessed this horrible murder and didn't do anything to stop it are all cowards. I hope they sleep well at night.

marknolan, schuylerville, usa

So much for multiculturalism. This is a daily occurrence where I'm from (South Africa). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to join the dots. I think its time for the British to say bye bye to their guilt complex!

Chris, London,

Can I guess that the alleged lynchers are all adherents of the 'religion of peace'?

Carl in Jerusalem, Jerusalem, Israel

I suspect all the comments will focus on measures to prevent a repeat or ensuring punishments are a greater deterrent. But wouldn't it be preferrable to try and understand the minds of the those involved; from the onlookers to the cheerleaders, from the gang to the victim. Surely we need to understand? Otherwise, if we deny the true causes, we risk having to get used to yet another social ill that will only register for its relative horror.

Rev F Gusset, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

So safe , so carefull , most of the comments . How we dread to possibly offend .
Perhaps certain groups of people just happen to have a larger dose of aggression. Take here in South Africa where the "black" students burnt down a school. Reason, the school outing was cancelled.
amus. Cape Town, RSA

sean, cape town, RSA

Anyone notice the condescension in many of the American comments? 'Oh if you were only more like us...' Just ignore them. We do. Hasn't hurt us yet... 402 years and counting. I'm surprised Americans actually read The Times. The murder was indeed a tragedy. Pity some can't refrain from 'it's worse in my country" and "your citizens should be more militant and anarchic like ours." Have some pity for the poor bloke and his family already.

M Cooke, Nova Scotia, Canada

Thanks to Bobbys with Batons, violent crimes such as this one is not out of control. This may be an exception. Imagine if this were a Brooklyn neighbourhood, all hell will break loose.

chanakyan, Brooklyn, NY

I totally DISAGREE with Nomlas Fisher's view. Its about time people stopped blaming society at large for the totally unacceptable behaviour of yobs. They know what they're doing and presumably feel comfortable that they can get away with it. The only relevant fault in our society is that they feel they can get away with it. They are criminals. It is they and their parents that must take reponsibility. I hope all of the yobs are found and banged up for a term. We simply can't have them on our streets.

David, Thames Ditton, Surrey

its horrible what these people are doing to others. This should be dealt with very seriously. Its about time we catch the people who are doing it before they do it again. If the bystanders saw happenings like this, at the beggining, end, or while it is happening, they should act, and not just stand there watching.

elizabeth, dar es salaam, Tanzania

I say, blame the Americans, Isn't that what you Europeans (euro-pee-ons) do with all your problems?

John F. Kotch, Newark, NJ USA

J Woods 'South Africa has some problems!' 2000 children killed every year. If we extrapolated that to the UK population we would have 5000 killed every year, 11a day, 5-6 Soham's every day. And in SA 5-6 children are killed every day! And this is classed as 'some problems'

Society is fractured around the world? why? If you are liberal you can blame cpaitalists, if you are a tory then blame the left or liberals, but honestly who knows?

Pat O Bendelow, bedford, bedfordshire

Whew -- good thing y'all have that nifty gun control over there, huh?

Sidgen, Sacramento, CA

I am British, living in Belgium. I visit many countries but never feel as uncomfortable walking a street at night as I do in the UK. I was in Inverness a few weeks ago and felt the same discomfort, though there were no coloured people around. In Belgium people enjoy their beer, get drunk often enough, but I never see a fight or vandalism. I never see people throwing up on the streets or fall-down drunk. But here people teach and practice values, responsibility and respect. Don't blame the government, police or witnesses, blame the values of your population and the apathy that makes your indignation short-lived.

David, Gent, Belgium

How come so many people saw what happened, and nobody >>did anything<< about it? Juanita from California doesn't place blame on the witnesses, but I do. As an American living in Britain, I can say that one of the most disturbing aspects about this society is the refusal to >>do something<< about what's wrong. Next time you see something going on that's wrong, DO SOMETHING.

Ken Blakely, Blandford, Dorset

Excuse me, but how is yelling out of an open window going to get you a) stabbed and b) sued? Did anyone even TRY to do that?

I hope all those who stood by and did nothing get sued for doing exactly that.

starling, Lancaster,

Criminals know unarmed citizens are easy prey. Crooks aren't nearly as brave when there's a chance they die as a result of their actions. How many more of your kids will have to be beat to death before you wake up and deal with these street scum? They are terrorist no different than a suicide bomber. They are out to rob,rape,kill,and terrorize for their sick entertainment. Treat them like the dogs they are or be prepared to suffer the same fate as this 16 year old boy.

Sherman, Oak Hills, California

How similar this story sounds to the lynch mob who demanded Jesus be crucified. What crime had this child committed -- he was a good student who wanted to make it in the world that his murderers despised. These thugs of both sexes chose him for death because he dared to be different from them -- and there are many others who will laud what they did, just as many in the USA despise learning and hate authority of all kinds. But only powerful LOVE can turn this climate of violence and fear into a different place -- who will be the big brothers and big sisters of these violent, nihilistic children?

Duggan Flanakin, Austin, Texas USA

They will all get three months community service after their list of excuses has been given to any court. "I come from a broken home", "I am deprived", "My Mother smacked me when I was 5". When are we actually going to deal with these thugs.
All the do gooders will come out and support the thugs not the victim.

Martin, Glasgow,

There is misinformation in the comments here. Over 2 million times a year an armed citizen in the US uses a firearm to stop or prevent a crime. That comes from criminalogist research and not from the NRA. Usually no one is hurt as the display of the firearm causes the attacker to look elsewhere for a victim. The gun control laws cannot be shown by researchers to have had anything more than a neutral affect on crime.

The above crime could have been stopped by an armed citizen, except in Britain, there are no armed citizens, or even citizens, only subjects.

Chad, South Jordan, UT, USA

UNTILL We ABOLISH!! poverty, inequity,racism,UNemployment, Drugs and a list of other Social Ills!!!.....Will We be able, to Stop Our Youth from Killing themselves, and US!!

Nomlas Fisher, Vancouver, Canada

What shocks me about this crime is that it happened in a busy street at teatime, for God's sake! It's a good thing that English people in general mind their own business and respect one another's privacy, but not to this point. How sad it is to think that this boy could have been alive now if someone had had the guts to intervene.

Susana, Barcelona, Spain

Well said, Dr Sivathasan. Political correctness has eaten away at our society for many years and we are now reaping the whirlwind.

There is no discipline and no proportionate punishment for such heinous crimes. Doubtless, those involved will receive a stern ticking off and a couple of years in youth offenders. Likewise, we are sure to be lectured by the PC brigade over the awful conditions these kids have to exist in!

It's simply not good enough - those who are old enough to commit murderous crimes are old enough to be punished on adult terms.

On a weekend when Lord Falconer has suggested we should leave Ian Huntley to rot in jail and throw away the key , will he suggest the same for these violent thugs?

Bill,, Middle England,

What's at the root of this? Nobody on here seems to think they are responsible but they are. I think deep down everyone on here knows how hopeless it is to fight against the prevailing mood of a large minority of people in this country and elsewhere. We reap what we sow. It may be disgusting but it isn't surprising.

petejh, Wales, UK

I am sorry to say, but your (British) society is sick

Mark, Saigon, Vietnam

How can children (of any social background) be brought up in such a manner as to commit this sort of crime? What school do they go to? What are their living circumstances? Discipline and morality start in the home and are furthered at school. The restrictions on teachers in schools to be able to sufficiently discipline their pupils encourages unruly children to think they can act however they want. School shouldn't be just about showing children how to read and write, it's about social interaction and how to behave in society. More emphasis should be placed on the balance of rights and responsibilites. Fostering this in the home is a harder goal - how can you stop a parent from choosing not to instil these basic moral values? On another note, perhaps their should be more police walking the beat and the punishments for serious crimes in this country should be far more severe. This sort of behaviour needs to be thoroughly, thoroughly discouraged for society's sake.

James Holloway, Edinburgh, Scotland

Bring back corporal punishment in schools. Fine the parents of under-age criminals. Empower the police to use their proper judgment and take away half their plush police cars so as to force them out on the streets again. Cut down police paperwork and statistical nonsense. Hang corrupt police officers out to dry. Create a department of traffic control with the traffic wardens and meter officials - that everybody can hate - and allow the police to tackle disorder and criminals only, with everybody's support. Abolish community service and bring back the stocks and public birching.

It's not very difficult but it does take courage: that's why it hasn't happened.

Roddy Campbell, Chistchurch, New Zealand

As long as the UK law continues to be in favour of juveniles who has no repect for the law, we will see more headlines like this. We have so many law to protect the young from being prosecuted, where is the law to protect the rest of us from them?

John Brown, London,

I find it distrubing that so many people are suggesting arming the citizenry in order to prevent these attacks. We have so many guns in America, and although it does ocassionally happen, in very few instances does a armed good samaritan have the ability to prevent a crime from happening.

As many big cities, gang activities are becoming overwhelming and as somebody has already commented, it is time to treat the disease and not the symptoms. I hope examples will be made from these hoodlums.

I also think that perhaps a few bystanders may have yelled at the crowd that the police were on their way--from a safe distance, of course. I place no blame on the witnesses, but sometimes these chumps are not nearly as brave as they try to portray themselves to be and will turn and run if addressed directly. Sometimes they can be psyched out, sometimes.

Juanita, Thousand Oaks, California

The lack of tougher laws for mindless crimes and thuggery, inadequate policing and poor deterrence, social breakdown, and a weak government do little to foster confidence in today's British society.
Our tax money is being squandered on red-tape and bureaucratic exercises, with facilities being misdirected. Even those that stand-up for change are quickly shot-down by spineless liberals and the system - and all too often, under the banner of 'political correctness'.
Many feel embarrased to be part of 21st Century Britain.

Dr. N. Sivathasan, London,

Perhaps the handgun ban for law-abiding citizens has sent the message that the streets are safe for criminal activity. The criminals can be this bold because no one except law enforcement can do anything to stop them.
.
Maybe it is time for you guys to start taking back your streets by reversing the handgun ban and letting the thugs know the victims might be armed and capable of fighting back.
.
Consider your freedom versus fear - hadnguns are great equalizers!

Miles Littlefield, Genoa City, Wisconsin, USA

Never mind what is happening to the youth, what about the adults. All the eye witnesses dont seem to have done anything. If a group of adults walking past had all shouted at the kids to leave him alone they would have. Instead it sounds like they all looked on disapprovingly but did nothing. If they couldnt face intervening they should have called the police. Thats whats wrong with the UK, adults have stopped treating children as people who need supervision and instead act like they are wild animals that must be avoided.

Leo Jones, Holyhead, Anglesey

For all of you advocating zero tolerance. Yes the crime rate did fall in New York but the extent to which the police are resposicle is questionable. Don't forget that at that time the popularity of crack cocaine rose dramatically and then fell almost as dramatically. The drug market contributed to the preceived need to be armed and the recruitment of youths into crime. As for the police, zero tolerance policy lead to even more cooruption within the NYPD, statistical manipulation to produce numbers everyone was looking for and police brutality. Hostility towards the police increased and police and community relations were hindered. And lets not forget the countless number of youths whose futures were effected by a criminal record for petty crime. Furthermore, the economic, social and political factors in London are so different to 1990's New York that any percieved drop in crime can't outweigh the negative effects such a policy would have. community problem-oriented policing is the key

abby, london, uk

Law and order under labour. If you'd observed this and stepped in to help you'd probably find yourself in court for assaulting one of the killers despite having averted a murder - and people wonder how this can happen in the early evening with all the pedestrians and other traffic around at the time! But then just look at Tony Martin - who clearly should have been given a commendation for shooting a criminal. Instead he gets sent to jail for protecting his own property in the middle of the night. Absolute madness. The law clearly needs to change and until that happens people will not step in - but then who can blame them.

James Bartley, Reading, Berks

We have to bring back the death penalty. When is society going to realise, that sometimes this is the only language these animals understand, and kind descent people are going to be able to stop fearing walking the streets of England. One thing I have to correct. They are beneath animals, and it is wrong to compare them to a much better species. Unfortunately until something like this happens to a top polititian or judge nothing will happen. I would not wish this horrible tradegy to happen to anyone, but I wonder how the law would change if it happened to Mr Blair

Gary Cramphorn, St Neot,

My children showed me a video that the gang MDP (Money Drugs Power) posted on youtube - it shows a group of young teenagers trying to act tough and impress their friends and the camera. They are kids who clearly feel confident and happy to be in a gang that gives them a sense of power and a belief that they are untouchable. I knew a couple of them when they were at primary school and am stunned how they've drifted downhill years since. All young people like to be members of a tightly knit group of friends but most have an appreciation of right and wrong. Why did these young people lose that awareness or is it too difficult to escape and turn your back on your best friends?

Richard, London, UK

Of course the liberal Establishment will do nothing. Something is seriously wrong with UK society, particularly London, for this kind of thing to be happening with such regularity. It isn't normal and the government must think carefully about whether its social policies of mutlculturalism are not contributing to the general social disintegration.

JL, Paris, France

I was utterly disgusted and saddened. What is happening to the youth of today. Completely immoral.

Irsa, Manchester,

RE: James B, Cypress, Texas

Yeah, we hear all the time of bystanding, armed texans and other americans preventing lynch mobs from killing someone. Who's ever heard of an american shooting wildly at schools or malls or driving by. Of course guns should be legal in the UK. Yeah, right.

Per Helge Seglsten, Oppegård, Norway

Britain, you reap what you sow. Youth is out of control because there are no effective sanctions. When the murder rates get high enough you will bring back the rope, the cane, the strap and the stocks.

Swift state-sanctioned retaliation for violent crime is a powerful deterrent to future violent activities.

James Hammersmith, Boston, USA

.....and you pick on us Yanks for being violent gun-crazed freaks.......which,by the way,we are......but for a country with gun laws like yours....need I say more?!

Michael K., Chicago, Illinois,U.S.

Once, children were taught to feel shame at their misdeeds, to fear punishment at school and at home, and to realize they were not the center the universe and not entitled to do what ever they wished when ever they wished. Now, children know no shame because they weren't taught to. They know no fear because they were never punished meaningfully. And they have been elevated to the status of lords of the manor by parents who foolishly demote themselves to serfs in their wish to be their offsprings' friends.

This is the result of the idiotic pop psychology that says children are born good and are made bad by discipline. Left to raise themselves (since their parents are unable or unwilling to do it) or to be raised by peers as ignorant and misbehaved as they are, children WILL act like wild dogs. The sooner we realize this and quit trying to buy our children's love with toys and permissiveness, the better off our societies will be.

Michael Roberts, Atlanta, Georgia, USA

I thought "Lord of the Flies" was fiction, not prophecy. What has England come to?

Mustafa, Elk Grove, USA

Thank goodness I left the UK in 1956 and came to South Africa with my parents. Yes South Africa has had its problems and still has violent crime that needs attention. We do not have this type of crime from school children, or young persons. We have adults abusing small children, and even killing them, we have gangs attaching cash transfer vans and we have violent hijacking and property break-ins. But young people attaching a school child leaves me cold. As commented by some, what the h... can one expect when these attachers become adults?

South Africa has its problems, that the world press exagerate, with Africa is a Continent of tribal conflict., and that is what 90% of Africa's problems are. As 'African' (I am still a white British subject) the thought that young people possibly take direction from TV films and the lack of disapline at home or school makes me wonder what Europe is heading for. Maybe the concept of 'chipping' new born children to control their future, is comming.

G Wood, Johannesburg, South Africa

The only reason this incident is being given so much media time is because it happened in a place where the average price of houses is around £1,000,000 had it happened in the back streets of Brixton or any other well known no go area then we might not have even known of this incident.

James, Bombay, India

well said sara,

what an amazing country we live in.
people will actually stand and watch as another is beaten sensless and ultimately killed - by CHILDREN!

Gavin, Manchester, UK

I really cant believe what society has come to. The headline of this article made me physically feel sick. It's a complete outrage. Innocent people, SCHOOLCHILDREN getting abused, and worse. Something has got to happen to stop this, and hopefully this will be a wake up call to the Governement, this has got to stop.

Emma Burke, Bristol,

I find it unacceptable that this attitude of violence and crime, so prevalent within "popular" culture adhered to by inner-city youths is not being dealt with effectively. There appears to be little or nothing done by positive black role models to dissuade gang culture, or disassociate the glamour associated with gang mentality (and all that goes with it).
Meanwhile, a police presence will remain at the scene of the crime for a couple of weeks after the incident (as is the want of senior Scotland Yard PR officers.. sorry police officers) only to disappear, then re-appear, when the next youth suffers at the hands of his peers. Zero-tolerance policing and a fundamental change in social and psychological motivation for youths is necessary to ensure the effective eradication of this pack mentality. And that means much stiffer penalties for those found carrying weapons and violent crime, together with a move toward positive family and sociological values and structures.

Dan Baseley, Cambridge,

This level (or indeed any level) of street violence is totally unacceptable. So don't put up with it. Emigrate. Fly the coop. Seek your fortune in the Colonies. I'm far safer on the streets of Vientiane, Yangon, Ho Chi Minh City, KL, even BKK than I would be in Oxford on a Friday night. And if that ever happened in Tokyo, the police would literally have dozens of uniformed officers at the scene within minutes. Seriously, what's the point of a police state when you can't walk the streets at night? UK: Hate it and leave it.

Andrew Milner, Yokohama, Japan

I find it interesting to note how often people believe that we are descending into a situation that has been common in the U.S.A. for years. I have just got back from Miami beach during the Spring Break. Thousands of, mainly black, youths flooded South Beach. Large groups of youngsters flooding the streets, no doubt many having enjoyed a few illegal shots, spliffs or whatever. I witnessed nothing more than young people having a good time. Everyone seemed to be getting on well and determined to have a good time.
I know of no city or town in England that would host such a gathering without, foul language, vandalism and violence.

Mike, London, England

John/Bexhill is correct. Many people are afraid to help or even defend themselves as they fear they will violate the ludicrous EU Human Rights Act & find themselves the subject of police inquiry or jail. This piece of nonsense legislation has given more rights to criminals than law abiding people. Furthermore, although I don't know enough about this particular case to say one way or another, government bureaucrats seem to adamantly refuse to believe that certain cultures are incompatible. Just thinking it is anathema and would likely be denounced as "racism" by the non-elected EU officials.

M. L. , Florida, USA

I am surprised by these people here saying that there were witnesses but they did not do anything ! Well who knows may be they would have got killed as well by the thugs if they had intervened ! OR they would have been arrested by police for "assault" on the thugs !!

Rez, Cheshire,

It has been a long time since I have read anything as disturbing as this report. Not only do we have the cast of players on the scene who murdered this boy in cold blood, we have the on-lookers, entranced and frozen in place. There is nothing in Shakespeare more blood curdling. There is an answer to all this mayhem and madness, and it lies in the meaningful proscecution of the killers, so strong it sends a message on the streets that even the most stupid can understand. It also lies in the dialogue that must ensue in society to confront the awful distortion of what is perceived as acceptable behavior. Otherwise we just leave the door open for our streets to become murder rooms, with more of this type of sheer horror. Response has to be quick, officers not far away, and citizens taking quick action. Everyone has a cell phone....communication is instant today. I hope two people were not giving blow by blow commentary to each other as this was happening. That would be the final insult.

John K Adams, Columbia, SC, USA

Unlike in Texas, sir, if guns were legal in the UK, these kids would likely have had one and would have shot the poor kid instead. Guns are not and will never be the answer. I lived in the UK for 3 years and felt much safer, knowing that if a fight does break out, wherever you might be, the chances of someone getting shot are almost nil, because so few people have guns. Now living back in the US, I am mindful and watchful of every argument that does occur in a public place, knowing that at any point, many people could suddenly become shooting victims. You cannot apply the laws of Texas and the US to another country, where it is not only the laws that are different, but also the culture and the value of a life is far different.

Lori, Nashville, TN

Well if anyone still does not know, here is the news: Britain is ruled by young thugs and kids on the roads. These thugs have got too much rights and it seems nobody can do anything about them. Even adults are afraid of them...that's Britain in 2007 !!! Not sure who to blame the Govt or the parents ? I think both....

Rez, Cheshire,

If guns were legal in the U.K., maybe an armed bystander would have intervened and prevented this murder. I live in Texas were being armed is common, and I feel safer being around law abiding citizens that are armed.

James B, Cypress, Texas

Remember 'Lord of the Flies'? or Le Bon's 'The Crowd'.

LN, Paris,

Thank you to Kathryn, local resident and witness, for telling us the FACTS. It is clear that the speed of the events didn't allow for reaction. Nor did the 'child' ask for shelter in nearby shops or homes. And the victim was also a 'thug ' who kicked a BMW to set off its alarm for show... or was that an attempt at raising the alarm? So many unanswered questions... as so many commentators have said, the rights of 'children' now out weigh the rights of the community. Whatever happenned to the powers of citizens' arrest? If you tried to arrest a young anti-social by grabbing him and detaining him in a local shop while the police arrived, you would be challenged with 'assault'. I want to know what happenned to the powers of citizen arrest. Were they ever legally abolished? What would your defence be if accused of 'assault'? Clearly the problem is here that children have become allowed to be feral by over-liberal laws that do not allow you to administer reasonable force of restraint.

M Clyde, Edinburgh, UK

It is sad to see that after several decades of increasing uncontrollable violence in Shepherd’s bush and Hammersmith nothing has changed. I do recall the miserable state of that area in the eighties with weekly similar incidents. This illustrates clearly the fact that British society is descending into a US-style social anarchy.
When I used to live in London twenty years ago we used to laugh at the state of social chaos in America. Britain today is following the US example, government and families today fail to see that what led to that boy’s violent death is simply the state of broken homes, social order and families that are now defined as ‘normal’. Unless the real cause not the symptoms are overhauled in society and the manner with which kids are brought up, be prepared to rival Miami and LA.

S. Adams, Sydney, Australia

As to regards intervening with an armed mob. Michelle on here and with a few others is talking sense.
You can't intervene nowadays the least you will get is verbal abuse if you're lucky at worst you would lose your life too.
Those who talk of intervening must live in some nice areas with well behaved kids. I once intervened with youths causing trouble outside a shop, when I came out of the shop, there was a large group of youths who ambushed me.

pen, Durham,

As a parent I would want a legal system that allows names of gang members (even if under eighteen) to become public and advertised, togheter with those of their parents. Major breakdown of family kids interaction.

antonino cusimano, florence, italy

Many would cite bad parenting. I known many parents who have excellent standards and have tried everything to reign their kids in.
I've witnessed the social worker and psychologist elements encourage this degredation of our society with their 'pat on the back' menatility and comments like "let them do anything they want, kids shouldn't have boundaries" and rewards.
The government and judicial system are no better. They sanctioned compensation payments in the thousands to junkies because they couldn't get their fix in prison and repeatedly allow crimes to go unpunished. All this while they push the common man further down and rob us of more and more rights making us a broken and pliable nation. They take away our right to own a fire arm to defend ourselves while gun and knife crime increases.
We need more police. They need to be armed. This country needs to find a back bone.
Once a proud and strong nation reduced to whimps fearful of unruly children and governmental reprisals.

Colin Nunn, Newcastle, Engalnd

everyone says it's a shame that others won't get involved, but are you willing to put your life on the line defending someone you don't even know and in circumstances that are also unknown ? It's easy to say you would, but when the excrement hits the fan you might have a different reaction.

I'll be honest: I know I wouldn't get involved.

I hate to see these things happening, but it's not worth getting sliced up over.

better to stay alive and maybe expend my energies trying to make things better so that these murder rate numbers go down from year to year.

marknolan, schuylerville, usa

if just one person- ONE PERSON had went out to help that boy instead of gawking at the scene like a bunch of morons, that boy might be alive today.

Sara, Woodstown, United States, New Jersey

all those witnesses!!! and nobody thought to do anything

that sums up our Country- what a disgrace i hope they can live with themselves!!! i wouldnt be able too

Gemma Royce , Peterborough , Cambridgeshire

Why is this now a common story involving young black males? Many will say it is the social deprivation, single parent families and poor education system. I diasagree many of these people came to the UK to lead a better life and escape from political war. They are given free education, health and even housing. They have alot of community support and receive good tax breaks and discounted council tax. Many of these kids wear the latest sports shoes and designer gear listening to their ipods. They have a privileged life and they know it. Yet something has failed, and it appears to have failed a generation not only confined to young balck Africans but a whole host of communities. whether it is young Pakistanis or white 'Chavs'. As the White flight gathers pace, education and healthcare is managed and led by those have fled London to bumber 100k plus salaries leaving behind a tick box culture of chaos for those working at the frontline with no time to concentrate on the real issues.

Samuel Clarke, London,

It is a shame in England that people fail to intervene in cases like this u could have a crowd of up to 100 people staring and doing nothing. what a shame.

Jude, london,

It starts off as low level crime and escalates. We need massive police increase – proper police and not wardens and draconian laws, e.g. 5 proper years for carrying a gun, 10 proper years for drug dealing, and basic prisons.
We need to advertise these harsh laws regular so they are no excuses for non-compliance. .

Rob, Birmingham, Uk

5 victims in the last 6 weeks. You're fortunate you don't live in the US. Los Angeles county recorded slightly more than 400 murders in 2006. So far 2007 is shaping up to be another banner year - around 60 murders already this year.
LA county has fewer residents than the London Metropolitain area.

The Los Angeles Times has a homocide blog. In the past murder was so common that it wasn't always newsworthy. On their blog they now devote a few words to each victim, name, age, race, manner of death, location, and any other relevant facts.

By far most of the victims are hispanic males with black males coming in second. These two groups comprise close to 90% of the victims. Most are killed with guns.

Black males make up only 4% of the US population but account for 35% of murder victims according to the CDC. Los Angeles isn't a particularly violent area compared to other major US cities with large minority populations.

Mark, Redmond, WA, USA

aiding and abetting the crime, those girls encouraged the boys to kill the other one, they are an accomplice to the crime and should be just as responsible

Robert, Los Angeles, USA CA

Time to instill discipline and strong measures. Otherwise it will be wild bunches roaming your street. Take drastic measures - use the whiop as in Sinagpore!

John Yang, Bangkok, Thailand

How on earth could so many people have seen this attack and done nothing? I would rather face reprisals than live with the fact that I did nothing to save his life. Individual physical intervention may have been foolish with the building mob, but what would have happened if ALL the witnesses had mobbed together as well? Or if just one of them had shouted 'Stop! The police are on their way' or asked what was going on or SOMEthing, rather than NOthing. Kodjo Yenga is dead when he could have been saved by one person inviting him into their home or shop. It is a shame that Kodjo Yenga did not feel that he could get help from any shopkeeper, resident or any other witness. Only the people watching it happen could have saved him. If people intervened more often, then perpetrators might think twice about committing such atrocities, especially in broad daylight. If community spirit and respect for fellow human beings could be resurrected, we would read about fewer tragedies like this.

Kathy Copple, Risalpur, Pakistan

is there any particular reason for all this ot be happenign, or is it some sick new game that kids are playing, much like the kids that were recently killing homeless people? you would think they could figure out that there are better ways to get your jollies. although i had a laugh when they automatically assumed on the one killing it was because of rival drug dealers. i tell you what, when kids around here are hanging around in rowdy groups, the police get called and they're dispersed before stuff like this happens.

Sue, Rochester, NY, USA

What a dreadful thing. While this hideous occurrence should be dealt with as quickly and expeditiously as possible by those charged to do so, it is vitally important we be mindful that no matter how utterly awful, mindless and ultimately wasteful of the boundless potential in a young man's life, it is still a relatively isolated event. Bravo Mr. Volpe of Newcastle-on-Tyne.

Patrick Wheatley, Faulconbridge, Australia

This is not the result of poor education, bad parents, lack of police, or poverty. This is the result of a culture and a mentality more common to certain groups of people. We've had out share of it in the US. Now it is being imported into the UK. It will not go away. The only way to cope with it is to build bigger prisons and hold the perpetrators in there at the first sign of trouble as long as you can, to keep the rest of society safer. Also the police will have to be armed. You will have to become more like America.

noname, Atlanta, USA

Twenty years on and nothing much changes. I lived in Shepherd's Bush/Hammersmith in 1987 and it was a year I wouldn't wish to repeat. The area was supposedly fashionable among young professionals but as a student, all I experienced was the threat of violence and ethnic tension on every street corner.
There was friction between Afro-Caribbeans and Asians, blacks and whites, male and female. It was commonplace to see abusive outbreaks in convenience stores, gangs swaggering provocatively across pavements forcing lone passers-by into the road - or else - and fights at the local ice skating rink. It was also around this time that the nation saw the rise of gangs of girls preying other girls to snatch their bags (Liz Hurley was a high-profile victim) or rearrange their faces for the hell of it.
Britain's emasculated police force, with its emphasis on pen-pushing and public relations, has clearly yielded no results. It's time they, though not the public, were armed.

D J Benson, Cambridge, UK

Tom finn look at the NJ department of corrections and tell me its not about race. The prisons in NJ are overflowing with blacks

sean, toms river, NJ

Actually per capita the murder rate is slightly lower in the US. hate to be the bearer of bad news but crime rates in the US have dropped dramatically in the past 20 years. While the UKs have risen.

John, bellingham,

Here in Georgia we actually have a town that requires all citizens to own a gun. It doesn't matter if it's a musket rifle from the Colonial War or even if you have bullets. What matters is that criminals assume that all homes are armed with working weapons. Sounds crazy, but their crime rate is very low.

Susan Widdowson, Atlanta, United States

to steve veerhoff -

I am sure that makes Kodjo feel much better.

ratpik, Atlanta, USA

This horrid event is no more typical of life, or youth in Britain than are American school massacres of life in the States. Certainly, teenagers anywhere figure highly in crime statistics, particularly in minor public order offences, but events like these are rare by national standards, even if they are highly regrettable. Remember when reading of these shocking happenings, that we are a nation of sixty million people. The reports show that the only eye witness claims the girls were screaming not for the victim's death but for his life. Too many adults have abandoned their responsibility to lead and to intervene in wrongdoing. If the grown-ups have no courage, what price decency, peace, and a stable society?

Tony Volpe, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

Why do they have to even bring up race? Its mentioned over and over in the article and is unnecessary and only promotes segregation.

TomFinn, Hoboken, USA/NJ

Even with the recent crime in England, the murder rate in the US is at least 3 times per capita that of the UK.

steve veerhoff, Arlington, VA, USA

God Bless us all....and pray for that childs family tonight.

Melissa, Small Town, USA

I think it's quite sad. Just like some of you already stated, that no matter what they do you are always going to have those that choose to disobey and cause mischief no matter what.

With how many poor neighborhoods and cities there are in America, since it's so vast, this happens almost daily. But when there are that many people it's hard to control all of them.

We have to be careful not to let our governments snatch away all of civil liberties in the name of "Order and Obedience". Many many officers in the US use non-lethal weapons which are used much more often than an officer would even draw his/her gun. There should've been more police officers nearby all of this, or the people should've called about it instead of just standing around watching.

Jeffrey Tomasco, Austin, USA

we must all help the police bring the killers to justice. why do we blame the police. it takes a village to raise a child...we must all help and encourage youth when we see them doing things right. they need positive role models.

john mahoney, London,

This IS a particularely horrible paradigm that the English seem to see public safety from. The streets of London will not be safe until there are major changes, and it is hypocritical for the gun paranoid British government to think it will. I am an Australian now living in the US, and the police back home in Australia, as over here in the US, can protect themselves and the public, and provide a deterrent by carrying handguns, pepper spray, batons, and taesers. And for all those people who scream police brutality, lets face it: if you aren't doing anything wrong, the chances of being targeted by police are slim. I would much rather take the one in a million chance that i would be accidently targeted by police, than the one in a hundred chance that i might be mugged, or even stabbed or shot or killed like this poor young innocent boy. Zero tolerance worked very well in NYC which could also be utilized in London. NYC went from one of the most dangerous cities in the US to the safest.

andrew, Portland, Oregon

This will continue until the govt begins to make examples of those responsible for these type crimes. God bless the child's family, as they say the good die young.

Rodney Miles, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina / US of A

I thought that the extreme form of Gun Control that the UK has is supposed to halt all these kinds of vicious crimes!

Michael B, Columbia, SC, USA

Welcome to the future...

Doug Brenner, Saint Paul,

and i thought america was bad

joe , napa, ca

People act like this all around the world, regardless of public outreach programs, upbringing, or pertinent demographic factors. It doesn't matter how much time or money you put forth. There will always be deviants to the system.
It is horrible that a thing like this happened. Tragedies like this play out every day in cities and towns all across the globe. Our inherent pack mentality, ancient lizard brains, and most likely raised levels of hormones create a setting ripe for such outbursts.
The most appaling part was that people stood by. It's true, stepping in would have resulted in injury, but I for one would rather die than stand by and let this mindless orgy of violence continue uncontested.
We are the only effective weapon against this threat. To stop this will take action in the moment. Drugs and violence are as immutable in this situation as the death they unleash, and so we as individuals must take the innitiative to act, popssibly without support, but to act.

Lauren, New York, New York

What horrible horrible end has this world come to that a young child is murdered by a gang of his peers, regardless of whatever the infraction (presumed or real) may have been.

This issue that affects all of us across the globe, and I often sit and wonder why such horrible events occur. As the mother of 2 young boys I am sickened by this, and cry for my children's generation that cannot play outside without direct adult supervision for fear of something so horrible happening.

Patti, Pittsburgh, PA

Why didn't the people who saw this happening stop the teenagers from ganging up and killing him? To me, they are just as guilty. They should have called the cops and shouted to the group of teens to stop and helped him. He would probably be alive if someone had stepped up! I'm sure they were afraid the teens would come after them, but at least one of the girls didn't want it to happen and the teen who died I'm sure wanted to live... that's 3 too many to risk attacking then.

Elli, Virginia Beach, VA

I spent two years in U.K way back in 1957-59. They were a wonderful two years when the police (affectionately called Bobbies) and normally were there to offer assistance did their utmost to help you. I used to stay out late at night especially when in London normally going to a late Cinema shows and was never afraid of encountering any hooliganism. One used to see even young ladies going back home after attending such shows using the underground anattended with no fear of being molested. The siren was normally associated with an ambulance and not a police car. This was different from the last time that I was for a holiday ten years ago. The Bobby seems to have disapeared. The frequent sirens heard were those of Police cars rushing from one place to another. Late at night places looked as cemetries. What happened? Why this difference? Change in the family upbringing? School education? Lack of moral standards?. It's about time that the roots of these problems are studied.

Alf. Grech, Qormi, Malta

What saddens me is that there are so many witnesses to this murder, and yet nobody seemed to help. What really saddens me, though, is knowing that there are so many similar cases before this one that involved witnesses not intervening, such as the Kitty Genovese case. Did the witnesses not intervene because they were afraid of reprisals, or because they each thought that somebody else would help, or because they were not sure whether the chants were merely aggressive but not violent? I do not know, but I think that we have to start taking a more active role as witnesses to such a violent event. I would rather prevent a crime than to see one happen and feel guilty for not intervening.

Simone, Philadelphia,

As someone who once did break up a mob I know intervening is not easy. I have specialist training and the ability to handle things and even then I was a little lucky as things hang in the balance for a moment or two. This is a difficult issue - it comes down to school and parental authority and the type of society we are engineering for ourselves. That those who witnessed it did not try to intervene is understandable - you only have split seconds to make a judgement call. That it will happen again is inevitable - human nature is hard to change. What we can change is its frequency and acceptability. That part is entirely up to us and the kind of world we consciously choose to create and it starts with our everyday conduct in every facet of our life.

David Amerland, Gatley, Cheshire

I am reading this for Georgia, USA. I cannot believe it - - just doesn't seem like the London that I grew up in - - it breaks my heart. 20 years ago in New York I use to say: "this would never happen in England", now reading the English newpapers I think they writing about Compton, USA. The government/police need to do something NOW!

Concern Black, Atlanta,

After reading a few of these comments I felt I had to add mine. I live in a large city on the east coast of the USA. The city I live in is in crisis with the gun violence. The politicos send more police which does little in the neighborhoods. The problem is multi layered in America. There is a huge gap between the wealthy and poor, that gap is now widening between the middle class, we are too politically correct, the abundance and ease in obtaining and use of guns, the disconnect between action and consequence; the lack of education for all, the lack of parental presence, drugs, drugs and drugs, the loss of respect, manners and accountablility; greed, confusing materialism with worth as a human being, the loss of respect as a country, the loss of belief in a higher being. I could go on but I would wind up writing a tome. We have lost a generation in America, please understand accountability starts with each of us. Its not everybody else's problem its all of ours.

ky, philadelphia, pa

If you arm the police, it will place fear into the minds of the murderers and maybe even act as a deterant. This was horrible crime

dominic fletcher , geneva, switzerland

It's a good thing the boy didn't fight back; he could have gotten in trouble.

Tyler Durden, New York, USA

This is sickening.

I want to know what happened to the dog as well?

Jeremy, London,

I lived in Fulham for 3 years and worked around parts of London (including a gang of six thugs attacking me for my laptop in Beaconsfield once!) and ... the only time I EVER saw police on the streets were when Chelsea were playing at Stamford Bridge.

They don't need to be draconian - just present. The irony of this, of course, is that the police themselves would rather be on the streets ... one copper I did meet told me she wouldn't have taken the job if she'd known the paperwork and time in an office involved. Sad.

Ian Stalvies, Waverley, Australia

The United States is seen as violent, with some reason, but I have never seen or heard of this kind of "mob against one" action here. It is despicable.

Maybe you should legalize guns. The states that have legalized concealed weapons carrying have seen a reduction in all forms of violence, and armed robbery for that matter. How many people would have been chasing that poor boy, if he might have ben armed?

Mark, Holmdel , NJ

Have read all the comments with interest. How cheap is life becoming in this great country of ours, when children appear to encourage the death of a young man?
Very very sad. There seems to be far too many stories like this now.

Michael, Weston-super-Mare,

Reminds me of Eddie Polleck, a kid I went to high school with, he was chased down and beaten to death *on the front steps of his local church.*

Not sure if I spelled his last name right, although he was in my grade I didn't personally know him but I do know that he family wrote a book about the ordeal.

Phil E. Drifter, Philadelphia, PA, USA

I have just walked past the site as I only live around the corner in the next road. They're all there - BBC, ITN, and other reporters. The wall where the poor guy was stabbed is covered in words of condolence. What a mess.

I have lived around here for the past few years - yes it's an affluent area - a nice pib, local butcher, an organic cafe - but then so much of London is sandwiched in between big estates and affluence. It's what makes this city tick - it's multicultural diversity.

Yes - we get hoodies and others hanging around and cutting through from Hammersmith, but so what, I thought. They are only 13 or 14 years old, and harmless ... maybe they would steal my bike if I left it around. The shock of finding that these 'kids' have hounded down a defenseless 16 year old guy (the police said he had no record and was a 'nice guy') beggars belief. I am in shock. He only died 100 yds from my doctors surgery.

What a mess.

Chris Howard, Hammersmith, London, UK

Clearly this is the latest in an unacceptable series of youth executions on British streets. The 'children' behind this latest killing have no sense of social responsibility. The term 'feral' has been used to describe this behaviour and anyone within walking distance of an inner London secondary modern school will testify to that description come hometime. The buses are a no go zone during these hours - their behaviour is sickening. It impossible to apprehend individuals without fear of being prosecuted for any number of trumped up accusations. In my day parents would only be too quick to take responsibility and administer severe corrective punishment. Clip a child round the ear these days and you'll be arrested and sentenced within the hour whilst the knife wielding, gun toting youth goes on their merry way safe in the knowledge that they are too young to be prosecuted.
I suppose the only slight relief is that they are pretty much killing each other and not the public at large.

Boris David, London,

This stuff is happening all over the world. Luckily, in Australia we have such a small population that the chance of being impacted directly is small.

Still, internationally this has to be dealt with. The youth are getting out of h